Network Play: Need advice re: Roll20 (vs Maptool) for GURPS

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Thanks. I think I'll stick to MapTool for now. It's free and works. Adding a unknown could be disastrous during my games.

That's what I'm thinking. MapTool has some wonky tech issues and the interface isn't pretty, but I could never get my group interested in any kind of subscription model. I did some research a couple of months ago and found all the VTTs I tried had some tech issues for my group (which consists of folks with relatively old computers so your mileage may vary) and lacked either the simple drag and drop functionality of MapTools or its automation system. I'm not normally messing with things like LoS, because I can just hide tokens, but it's there and working well for those who want it.

My suggestion to the OP is to just reign in your tinkering instincts. I'm also prone to tinkering (rules-wise not script-wise), but it only pays of to a certain degree. If it is fun for you, keep doing it on the side, but keep the actual gaming in sight unless you know your group won't be meeting for a while.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

That's what I'm thinking. MapTool has some wonky tech issues and the interface isn't pretty, but I could never get my group interested in any kind of subscription model. I did some research a couple of months ago and found all the VTTs I tried had some tech issues for my group (which consists of folks with relatively old computers so your mileage may vary) and lacked either the simple drag and drop functionality of MapTools or its automation system. I'm not normally messing with things like LoS, because I can just hide tokens, but it's there and working well for those who want it.

My suggestion to the OP is to just reign in your tinkering instincts. I'm also prone to tinkering (rules-wise not script-wise), but it only pays of to a certain degree. If it is fun for you, keep doing it on the side, but keep the actual gaming in sight unless you know your group won't be meeting for a while.

Me either. We'd rather spend the money on good food or drink (the majority of my gamers are foodies or amateur chefs and our game days feature fantastic meals). And I've been using Maptools since iteration 5...so we're familiar with it. While Roll20 looks neat...well, we use Maptools as a tabletop gaming aid vs. actual gaming platform. So it serves my needs quite nicely.

[muranternet]

Originally Posted by bitbyter

As for reliability, we have been playing on Roll20 every other week for about 6 months now and I haven't run into a single instance of down time. We play on the development server which I would imagine is not as "stable" as the live servers. Also, on top of game time I have spent hours entering stuff into my campaign on the sever. Besides one instance of not being able to login yesterday (at around noon) for about 2 hours (due to the rollout of a new feature), I haven't ever had an issue with the servers.

Do you have a screencast available? Or is there a way I can join as an observer? I'm super curious abut how this is working for you.

[bitbyter]

There are lots of play examples on Youtube and their website. The reason I started looking around at the various VTT's was that one of our long time players was moving away due to work. This way we have been able to keep our group going and it has been working well. Like I said earlier. Only the GM needs to pay $9.99 if you want the advanced features. For what you get I don't think that is excessive in anyway. I tried maptools in the past and just had far to many issues getting people connected. Since Roll20 works over Google Hangouts it works very well for lower end computers. At least two of my players have very old desktops (6+ years old) and lower end connection speeds and we haven't had any connection issues other than someone dropping out for about 15 seconds maybe once a session.

Generally I only use Roll20 for big planned combats. The rest we just do over the audio / video interface and they use their character sheets in Roll20 & the rolling engine for smaller skirmishes or non-combat encounters.

Like any new tool there is a learning curve (especially for the GM) but there is lots of info on the forums, youtube and the wiki.

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by bitbyter

There are lots of play examples on Youtube and their website. The reason I started looking around at the various VTT's was that one of our long time players was moving away due to work. This way we have been able to keep our group going and it has been working well. Like I said earlier. Only the GM needs to pay $9.99 if you want the advanced features. For what you get I don't think that is excessive in anyway. I tried maptools in the past and just had far to many issues getting people connected. Since Roll20 works over Google Hangouts it works very well for lower end computers. At least two of my players have very old desktops (6+ years old) and lower end connection speeds and we haven't had any connection issues other than someone dropping out for about 15 seconds maybe once a session.

Generally I only use Roll20 for big planned combats. The rest we just do over the audio / video interface and they use their character sheets in Roll20 & the rolling engine for smaller skirmishes or non-combat encounters.

Like any new tool there is a learning curve (especially for the GM) but there is lots of info on the forums, youtube and the wiki.

Well, ten bucks a month is a lot more than my Pyramid subscription and I just managed to afford that this year. For a game or three each month this is just not on the table. I don't fear the learning curve, I fear the lack of features and the google integration (I hate social networks with a burning passion). I also never had a player drop from MapTool. It's just that we have initial connection problems some of the time (which can be solved by a reboot in every case). Also the six year old laptop is actually the second most modern computer in our group ^^;

By all means it sounds like a great system for your group and I don't want to be disparaging. I just wasn't too impressed by all the supposedly better proprietary alternatives to MapTool. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them will evolve into something that's a lot better than MT in a year or two. Progress on MT has been glacial for the last three years or so.

[DavidSev]

My group uses maptool. We use that with mumble, a wiki, and some spreadsheets on dropbox.

Maptool is great as an interactive whiteboard and for tactical combat, but the advanced combat stuff is more hassle than it's worth. We use some simple macros for rolling attacks etc, but things like fog of war and tracking stats etc is just too much of a PITA. I've mostly done all the macros and stuff, so it's not taken any of the GM's time.

It is a bit annoying with things like versions and java and stuff, we're currently running a year out-of-date because it works and upgrading will probably break stuff. But mostly not been a big issue.

One thing I'm trying to talk people into is using more of google docs. That way you can have a spreadsheet with all our current statuses etc, and it updates for everyone in real-time. Would be especially handy for inventory etc.

[DaveD]

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

...I fear the lack of features and the google integration (I hate social networks with a burning passion)...

While you can run Roll20 in a Google Hangout if you want, it's completely separate. We use a Mumble server for voice communications, other groups use Skype and some use the provided, non-Google video and voice option (TokBox or WebRTC, can't remember).

Also, it's possible to run a satisfying GURPS campaign just on the free level of subscription. After over a year of GMing, I'm still below 100 MB of uploaded assets.

[muranternet]

Originally Posted by DavidSev

It is a bit annoying with things like versions and java and stuff, we're currently running a year out-of-date because it works and upgrading will probably break stuff. But mostly not been a big issue.

When I tried to load up my old MapTool campaign, it threw a bunch of exceptions at me on load, largely due to java pointers and maybe in part because of the absurd quantity of JSON scripting I had in there. I tried to fix it for two hours, all the while thinking about what it was like to set it up for my non-tech players, hence my current interest in Roll20.

[DavidSev]

Yeah I never bother with old files, each time we start a new adventure I just load the macros again. Normally stats have changed between trips, so I need updated macros anyway. I guess it all depends on how many of the features you want.

[Otto Harkaman]

Just discovered Roll20, looks pretty cool