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Old 10-31-2017, 10:08 AM   #21
Kromm
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post

20 skill points lets a person of average ability (DX or IQ 10) achieve mastery (skill 15) of an Average difficulty non-combat skill. I don't think an IQ 10, Cooking-15 [20] chef is some kind of superhuman, power-gaming character.
I could see a real-world person – given the choice "Go from IQ 10 [0] to IQ 11 [20] or add an IQ/Average professional skill at IQ+5 [20]-15?" – preferring the latter because it's a meal ticket. That's meta, but in real life people make the choice without knowing it, preferring to go to school, focus on a marketable skill, and start a career over floating around, exercising their intellect across dozens of areas. I know several people who've read widely, dabbled in countless jobs, backpacked around the world, meditated, gotten involved with causes, etc. – and while they seem "smart," they don't present as employable. They'd probably make better adventurers, of course.

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post

I'm still not seeing the problem, and while you say "it wouldn't be fair", the question remains, fair to what? The other PCs that only spent 1 point on First Aid and are reasonably competent at patching each other up but have another 36 points to spend on being good at whatever they want to be good at?
There's also that. A PC being an expert at a skill doesn't really invalidate other PCs learning that skill. In my modern-day secret-agents campaign, there was a medic who was super-competent with Physician. This didn't in any way invalidate all her colleagues knowing First Aid, because (1) after a gunfight, you need many sets of hands to deal with many bleeding people, not a queue of people bleeding out on Doc's waiting list, and (2) some surgical tasks need assistants to get bonuses or avoid penalties, and somebody with First Aid is a whole lot better than an unskilled person at clamping things off and so on.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:26 AM   #22
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
20 skill points lets a person of average ability (DX or IQ 10) achieve mastery (skill 15) of an Average difficulty non-combat skill. I don't think an IQ 10, Cooking-15 [20] chef is some kind of superhuman, power-gaming character. I think that represents a fair number of restaurant head chefs that are really good at cooking, but don't have the personal skills, business sense, or drive to become multifaceted TV personalities like Martha Stewart or Gordon Ramsey (and thus we don't know much about them because they aren't celebrities).

I'm still not seeing the problem, and while you say "it wouldn't be fair", the question remains, fair to what? The other PCs that only spent 1 point on First Aid and are reasonably competent at patching each other up but have another 36 points to spend on being good at whatever they want to be good at?
Well... after reading the thread I don't think it is a problem anymore. I just think it was problematic for some unknown reason (seriously, I don't why I was thinking that).
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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Originally Posted by Empada View Post
I just think it was problematic for some unknown reason (seriously, I don't why I was thinking that).
The strong defaults.

Trust me, I get the same way when I see IQ 17+ characters who do it because all the IQ skills will default in the 10-13 range (and most fall in at 12+).
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:38 AM   #24
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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Well... after reading the thread I don't think it is a problem anymore. I just think it was problematic for some unknown reason (seriously, I don't why I was thinking that).
What I was thinking as I read your post was that Healer as written in Basic is a garbage Talent, like many of the others in Basic. A Talent that is eclipsed by a single skill is not much of a Talent, especially at 10 pts/level.
Hence the need to power it up using Power-Ups 3: Talents, which gives many ways for the GM to make Talents more attractive as well as examples of new Talents.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I could see a real-world person – given the choice "Go from IQ 10 [0] to IQ 11 [20] or add an IQ/Average professional skill at IQ+5 [20]-15?" – preferring the latter because it's a meal ticket.
Or a passion! If I could choose between +1 to my IQ or +5 to my Artist (Drawing), I'd definitely pick the latter.

On a related note, one of the sweet things about GURPS, compared with many other games, is that you're really not that badly stuck with the choices you make when first creating a character, in terms of niche. If you accumulate 50 cp over the course of a campaign, that's plenty to turn your highly competent physician into a diplomat and spy, or a military leader, or a travelling bard, or a deadly sniper. Sure, you won't be as good at those things as a character that was designed for them from the get-go and stayed in their lane, but difficulty doesn't need to escalate the same way in GURPS as it does in class-and-level systems, so that's not necessarily an issue. My favorite characters have all ended up developing into directions I had absolutely not planned when they started out. In some games, it's been a frustrating experience (while also rewarding), but in GURPS, it's just been a blast.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:11 PM   #26
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
The strong defaults.

Trust me, I get the same way when I see IQ 17+ characters who do it because all the IQ skills will default in the 10-13 range (and most fall in at 12+).
The truth is, the other medical skills should probably be Physician techniques except that whole default cascade was set up before techniques existed.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:14 PM   #27
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
The strong defaults.

Trust me, I get the same way when I see IQ 17+ characters who do it because all the IQ skills will default in the 10-13 range (and most fall in at 12+).
I don't think IQs above 14 are in any way human let alone realistic. But for Reed Richards type characters it's all but necessary.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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I don't think IQs above 14 are in any way human let alone realistic. But for Reed Richards type characters it's all but necessary.
Or even Star Trek bridge crew.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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I don't think IQs above 14 are in any way human let alone realistic. But for Reed Richards type characters it's all but necessary.
Untrue. Richards doesn't need social skills in the 14-16 range as a default from IQ. He needs Talents for his MAD SCIENCE and MAD ENGINEERING... or better still (as it's a Supers game) a pair of Wildcard skills and "Regular Joe IQ" (considering how often his creations run amok and cause 90% of the problems the FF end up dealing with... dude has serious "common sense" issues).
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: High Skill Vs Talent

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Or even Star Trek bridge crew.
There's a broad fictional class of characters who answer insanely difficult mathematically based question ins the Science of the Week without even consulting their laptop.

So High IQ, Science!, Eidetic Memory and Intuitive Mathematician.
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