How to model SUPER strong and fast characters?

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Dodge case would be the same as the multiple parry case (I haven't bothered with more than two rapid strikes, more is pretty over the top anyway).

huh? I thought dodge never decreased from use. I thought that was a major reason to use dodge.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by ericthered

huh? I thought dodge never decreased from use. I thought that was a major reason to use dodge.

Martial Arts introduced an optional rule that many have adopted, where Dodge suffers a -1 iteration penalty. It also brought in some other options, like Block suffering a -5 iteration penalty rather than being single-use, two-handed weapons having a halved iteration penalty, and the reduction to the iteration penalty due to using a Fencing skill instead being a function of weapon weight (or, rather, of exceeding the weapon's MinST by a certain amount), all of which might be useful to keep in mind here.

[Michael Thayne]

From the post title I wonder if the author thought DX in the 50-500 range is how you build comic-book speedsters. In reality comic-book speedsters typically have downright modest DX in GURPS. Instead, truly ludicrously fast speedsters are defined primarily by Altered Time Rate and Enhanced Move (Ground) (and Enhanced Time Sense, but that's not a leveled trait so it can't differentiate low-end speedsters from higher-end ones). Basic Speed and Basic Move are likely in the "peak normal human" range, but not high enough to make the character super by themselves. Think Basic Speed in the 8-10 range and Basic Move 11 (I like Basic Move 11 because it lets you make 2-yard "steps").

Powers has some modifiers for Altered Time Rate and Enhanced Move that are useful for super-speedsters, and Power-Ups 4: Enhancements goes into a bit more detail on applying Cosmic to Enhanced Move. Supers has an occupational template for a speedster which you may not want to follow exactly, but gives a pretty good sense of the key components.

[Sorenant]

For anime style super fast/coordinated characters, I believe Altered Time Rate works better than high DX.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

IDHMBWM, but IIRC there's a +25% Enhancement in 4e Supers that lets you totally ignore Rule of 20 on some or all of your over-20 DX if you want.

There is. A character like Clark Savage, Jr. might conceivably have nearly every skill in the book at from 16 (for Hard) to 18 (for Easy): he could play chess like a master, fly like a test pilot, and solve differential equations like a skilled mathematician. But I don't think it's all that plausible to have characters whose default skill levels are much above 20. I mean, without any specific training, they're equal to the world's greatest practitioners of every art, science, and profession?

Bill Stoddard

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

From the post title I wonder if the author thought DX in the 50-500 range is how you build comic-book speedsters..

Long, long ago I encountered a fellow who'd built his Champions 1e character to have DEX 110 and SPD 12 but spent pts on nothing else. No, it didn't work very well. You couldn't hit him except with area attacks but even though he had 2x as many turns as anyone else he didn't cover ground that quickly and had to spend most of his turns in pure movement. He didn't hit very hard either.

So, I would judge it possible that someone out there could decide that DX50 or maybe even 500 was the way to make a speedster in Gurps.

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by ericthered

huh? I thought dodge never decreased from use. I thought that was a major reason to use dodge.

Yeah, and that's my logic for using the two different parries case for dodge. Two different parries (I. E. Left arm and right arm with ambidextrous) avoid the penalties the same way that dodge does.

[LisMorozniy]

Originally Posted by johndallman

ST works differently to the other three attributes. It's explicitly open-ended, because large creatures have very high ST, and it's rarely rolled against. It is also measurable in real-world terms.

DX, IQ and HT are less readily measured in real-world terms, and values in the 20-30 range are about as high as the game system copes with. DX 500 doesn't make all that much sense. Why do you feel you need numbers that high? "To be on the same scale as ST" isn't really a good reason.

The reason is that most of important characters in this universe have achieved reaction, fight and movement speed greater than mach 1. Top 10 characters have speeds in the range of mach 5-500(it's reaaaly incosistent and argueable so I just choose lower bound of mach 5-10). But still it's more than thousand Basic Speed. So I am looking for the way to model this, but GURPS don't seem to being really good at this values. This is not like I want it or not for any particular reason, I just need to match the source.

[TerryW]

You can model high speeds and reaction times with the right advantages. It's easier to do it that way than the brute-force method of obscenely high attributes. GURPS Powers might help you with that.

Alternatively, you can check out something like Mutants & Masterminds, an RPG built with Superman-level characters in mind. You might find it a better fit for what you're trying to do.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by LisMorozniy

The reason is that most of important characters in this universe have achieved reaction, fight and movement speed greater than mach 1. T.

Raw attributes aren't the way to do this. You need a relatively complex mix of Advantages.

Trying to remember what i saw on Hunter X Hunter the first special Advantage gained is probably Enhanced Time Sense. The possessor of this can track lightning fast moves and always acts before "normal" humans.

Extra attacks probably with the Multi-Strike Enhancement lets users attack with superhuman speed.

Altered Time Rate allows for moving and attacking at superhuman speed and generally allows complex multi-part actions to occur in lightning speed.

For actual movement at extremely high speeds you'll want Enhanced Move doubling speed with each level probably with Enhancements allowing instananeous acceleration and maneuvering at max speed.

You'll need other Powers for damage doing and durability.

I know this all seems very complex but your source material is very complex and I know of no other supers system that would handle things more easily.