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Old 12-06-2022, 05:23 PM   #21
sazzlefrats
 
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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Sunroof.

I confused myself. Sunroofs allow a passenger or gunner a 360 firing arc, convertible hardtop (and by extension cars with no top armour) allow 360 fire for ALL crew (with the exception of the driver who can't fire forward).

I don't see anything preventing you having multiple sunroofs though and even the limitation on a single passenger is not explicit, "a passenger" is not always synonymous with "a single passenger".
Sunroof takes the place of a turret. Suppose if you could have multiple turrets then multiple sunroofs

Your RL Compact looks good to me. Mines similar, 5pts metal, less plastic but
I would swap for a flamethrower and SWC, once I discover metal, go after the tires (no gunner in my build, cause 2x component armor), otherwise has bumper trigger and bumper spikes on the front. And a fake discharger in the rear to keep people on their toes
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Old 12-07-2022, 02:30 AM   #22
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Sazzlefrats:
Yep there is that indication you can only have 1 per turret. It seems off to me that as it occupies half the roof area (as there is a 50/50 chance of a top damaging weapon bypassing the top armour when it is open) you can only pop a single passenger out.

For example by the rules a 40' van trailer can have 2 turrets and thus 2 sunroofs. That is 40' x 8' roof area so each sun roof represents a 80 square foot hole. I think you could easily pop half a dozen firers out of a hole that big. The number of passengers is limited by the internal capacity of the vehicle anyway (and under the rule of counter placement 80 sq. ft is handily about 6 x 1/4" squares).

A compact roof is clearly much smaller so you really could only get one passenger out of it. As any vehicle can target the top armour of any lower vehicle (as an out of arc shot at least) you would want think carefully about fitting a sunroof to such a low vehicle anyway, it would be easier to target the top than the passenger sticking out of it as out of arc is only -2 and have a 50/50 chance of doing internal damage. As discussed in previous threads, even the side weapons of rigs are higher than the tops of most vehicles so you don't even need a turret.

I suppose as rule of thumb you could just allow a number of passengers equal to the maximum turret spaces for the vehicle type (so compacts could have a single meat turret, but oversized vehicles could have 4 people per sunroof).

EVIL Thought:
A passenger in a cargo compartment are classed as cargo. Car top carrier's can only carry cargo, so technically you can put a couple of passengers in even the smallest one. Car top carriers can carry unlimited armour (but need to be armoured in up to 5 locations) so more like vehicles than say EWPs. No reason why they cannot have firing ports. Even a subcompact can carry a 2 space carrier (not withstanding the weight requirement).

Also in the Car Warriors comic there was the roof gun that was used by the Wysocki family. It is statted for CW and is Official (though omitted from UACFH). It is similar to a one-space pintle but slightly different.

Last edited by swordtart; 12-07-2022 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 12-08-2022, 08:58 AM   #23
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One other use to remember is that a HAVR-equipped passenger on a motorcycle is a reasonably efficient weapon for that vehicle. Doubly so with some Component Armor.
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Old 12-08-2022, 09:01 AM   #24
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And don't forget the car trailers. They are already a very efficient way to get a bunch of extra space. They can be a fairly effective platform for a bunch of passengers.
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Old 12-08-2022, 03:05 PM   #25
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And don't forget the car trailers. They are already a very efficient way to get a bunch of extra space. They can be a fairly effective platform for a bunch of passengers.
_Combat Showcase_ had something like, IMSMC -- a flatbed trailer with a weapons box containing a Passenger with a Tripod Weapon?
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Old 12-10-2022, 10:14 AM   #26
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The trailer was Pillbox (CS p44). The weapon was a tripod light laser. Light laser is a pathetic weapon and the combination of light laser and paint GS is an odd one.

Errata suggested the price was wrong, but I can't get the numbers to add up at all. Even of you use the old rules where a tripod light laser was a specific weapon* the weight comes out wrong. Many of the vehicles in the Combat Showcase were illegal and the errata for that publication is one of the more extensive ones in the CW canon.

I also think that having a 4 space weapons box on a 8 space flatbed is a bit cheesy. I never managed to get it straight if the 4 spaces came off the 8 spaces or were in addition to it. if it comes off the trailer space then it makes a bit more sense. Also on the larger flatbed it clearly specified this was for defensive weaponry (which our group interpreted to mean DWs), my current feeling however is that a space is a space and we can do without exceptions to that basic premise (so three passengers in a heavy sidecar should also be fine) so I would be arguing the point with my younger self :).

I have used a 6' van in a similar capacity. You cannot have nearly as much weight for armour but there is plenty of space for CA. If you went HAVR instead you could probably get away with a mini-van.

*Rather than the more recent interpretation that it is a half weight light laser plus a 25lb tripod. Of course with the new interpretation you can fit a 2 space weapon on a tripod and it still takes only 1 space.

Tripod weapons are a particularly good reason to require passenger fire-arcs be determined at design time.

Last edited by swordtart; 12-10-2022 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 12-10-2022, 03:03 PM   #27
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Many of the vehicles in the Combat Showcase were illegal and the errata for that publication is one of the more extensive ones in the CW canon.
It wasn't that they were illegal to start with -- it was that one of the "Gang Of Four" came along, made a bucketload of rules changes, and made most of them illegal. For ex.: _CS_ is where the arguments over whether HD Transmissions only affected towing capacity first appeared; one of the "munchkin moves" was based around arena event starting speeds usually being 30 MPH, whereas the acceleration penalty for HDT only kicks in at 20 or slower -- one could get a lighter plant for essentially no penalty. (PC and SC eventually ended that argument.)
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