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Old 11-18-2021, 08:52 PM   #21
MrFix
 
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Default Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by fula farbrorn View Post
I just wanted to say that Quad loading is VERY much a realistic use of fast draw ammo.

you would change your grip and turn the gun port upwards meanwhile you fastdraw 4 rounds from your belt

then you insert all 4, 2 at a time.

https://youtu.be/LHbfXlphbu0
One thing to note - GURPS understainds "Double Loading" as drawing two shots separately and THEN loading them together. That's why it shaves off only 1 second per 2 shells. If you drew both shots at the same time AND inserted them at the same time, it would shave off 2 seconds pair pair of shots. I suppose using Multiple Fast-Draw can be used to draw 2 shells instead of just 1.
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Last edited by MrFix; 11-18-2021 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 11-19-2021, 08:48 AM   #22
Varyon
 
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Default Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun

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Originally Posted by MrFix View Post
One thing to note - GURPS understainds "Double Loading" as drawing two shots separately and THEN loading them together. That's why it shaves off only 1 second per 2 shells. If you drew both shots at the same time AND inserted them at the same time, it would shave off 2 seconds pair pair of shots. I suppose using Multiple Fast-Draw can be used to draw 2 shells instead of just 1.
I interpret Double Loading as involving grabbing two shells at once and loading them up together. The reason this doesn't quite cut reload time in half is because, while reloading two at once takes less time than reloading one at a time twice, it still takes longer than reloading one at a time once. Because of the weird every-3-shots oddity of shotguns, it works out to reducing the time to load the first two shells from 3 seconds to 2 seconds, the time to load the second two also from 3 to 2, and the time to reload the third set of two from 4 to 3. At work and thus away from my books, but I think Double-Loading does cut the time to load individual rounds into a revolver in half. It's normally either 2 seconds per round (one to draw, one to load, for those with auto-ejectors) or 3 seconds per round (as above, plus another second to pull out the shell casing). Fast-Draw reduces these to 1 second and 2 seconds, respectively - for 2 seconds or 4 seconds to reload 2 shots. Double-Loading shaves a second off the first case, reducing it to one (half the time); it shaves two seconds off the second case (reduces the time to pull out the spent casings as well, for overall half the time). Naturally, gate-fed weapons get the short end of the stick again.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think just letting gate-loaded weapons be reloaded "too fast" would be better all around. So, one second per round with Fast-Draw, one second for two rounds with Double-Loading, free action per round (but suffer mounting penalties on further reloads within the same second) with Fast-Draw + Quick Reload, and possibly even a free action per two rounds with Double-Loading + Quick Reload. That's absolutely not RAW or RAI, but I don't think it would really break anything.
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Old 05-04-2022, 03:06 PM   #23
MrFix
 
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Default Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun

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Originally Posted by Shawn A. Fisher
Sure we can walk through this.

The most up-to-date published information on gun perks, like Quick Reload, is in Tactical Shooting. It says about Quick Reload:
"A successful Fast-Draw (Ammo) roll lets you reload as a free action for a detachable magazine, or with a single Ready maneuver if using a charger clip or
speedloader. In all other cases, it chops 25% off reload time, ___after the reduction___ for Fast-Draw and Double-Loading (p. 44) ___round up__, but with a minimum savings of one second.'

So here's the text for a single barrel breechloader with ejectors:
"It takes one Ready maneuver to open the breech (automatically ejecting the case), one to retrieve a fresh cartridge, one to insert it, and one to close the breech. A successful
Fast-Draw (Ammo) roll reduces this time from four seconds to three."

Loading a gate-loading magazine shotgun that already has a round in the chamber does not require a Ready to load a round in the magazine OR to close the breech. Just grab a round and stuff it in the tube. So it takes: "one to retrieve a fresh cartridge, one to insert it." And that's it!

Basic Set on Fast-Draw says: "The exact benefits depend on your weapon, but a successful roll always shaves at least one second off the reload time."
Quick Reload says "a minimum savings of one second."

Clearly one could make the case that this gives you a zero-second reload if you make a Fast-Draw (Ammo) roll and have the Quick Reload (Internal Magazine) perk.

This makes it on par with using Fast-Draw (Ammo) and Quick Reload ( Detachable Magazine) to reload an M4, Glock 17, etc.
I'm okay with this. it's a big investment in points and it can go wrong.

Likewise, if you go to Double-Loading, that's Fast-Draw -2 to load two shells in the tube at once. If you put points into that as well it still caps at Fast-Draw and you still are only loading two shots each second. I don't think this breaks anything.

Note that shotgunners still must Ready, cycle the action, if they run the gun dry. On a six-round tube that's four seconds.
But that gives you 5+1 shots.

If you want 6+1 shots in six-tube magazine, you need to do an emergency reload (like the link below) and that means you add another second and get to five seconds, as Tactical Shooting suggests.

Here's how fast one could do an emergency reload:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km-u...idusIndustries

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Regards,
Shawn A. Fisher
From that I can gather that there's no work with the fractions like 0.33 or 0.66 with fast-draw. You get -1 second for loading 1-3 shots, -2 for loading 4-6 etc.

I suppose that is final and can be put to rest. Big thanks to S. A. Fisher for quickest response and being a great help.
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Old 05-05-2022, 04:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun

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Originally Posted by MrFix View Post
Did I get it all right? Am I going nuts?
Yes!

Shotguns as a weapon vs hunting are IME not often planned for an 'in-combat' reload.

Plans would be:

1- all tangos are dead, reload at leisure.

2- 'drop' (to end of patrol sling) and fast draw pistol/backup weapon of choice.

3- duck behind hard cover (i.e. out of combat) reload quickly while your friends earn their princely salaries.

4- throw a grenade first, then use shotgun.

5- call in an airstrike, if necessary repeat.

6- reconsider career plans.
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