Katana in defensive grip

[gtrgt]

I use katana with Broadsword skill and haven't Two-Handed Sword skill. Which skill i should use if i want to take Defensive Grip? MA111 said about one-handed weapon "Treat the weapon as two-handed for all purposes.". Does it mean i should use katana with Two-Handed Sword (Broadsword -4 in my case), because it's have two-handed profile.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by gtrgt

I use katana with Broadsword skill and haven't Two-Handed Sword skill. Which skill i should use if i want to take Defensive Grip? MA111 said about one-handed weapon "Treat the weapon as two-handed for all purposes.". Does it mean i should use katana with Two-Handed Sword (Broadsword -4 in my case), because it's have two-handed profile.

Just before the bit you quoted, MA says "The extra hand makes it awkward to use normal onehanded strikes but adds power: -2 to attack rolls, +1 to damage." That sounds like you're still using the one-handed skill (Broadsword in this case) but at -2 to hit (and +1 damage); it seems like an excessive penalty to both impose a -2 to hit and require you to use a different skill (Two-Handed Sword in this case), plus weapons normally used with a two-handed skill are treated differently when it comes to Defensive Grip anyway, so I'd say just treat it as Broadsword at -2 to attack.

It does go on to state "Treat a weapon that can be used one- or two-handed – such as a bastard sword or a spear – as two-handed for this purpose," implying you'd have to use Two-Handed Sword and the two-handed rules, but personally I'd be inclined to let you treat it as a one-handed weapon here - it seems weird that a weapon that is designed to be usable one-handed or two-handed, when used by a character who has trained for one-handed use, is actually worse than a one-handed-only weapon when switching to a Defensive Grip...

[gtrgt]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Just before the bit you quoted, MA says "The extra hand makes it awkward to use normal onehanded strikes but adds power: -2 to attack rolls, +1 to damage." That sounds like you're still using the one-handed skill (Broadsword in this case) but at -2 to hit (and +1 damage); it seems like an excessive penalty to both impose a -2 to hit and require you to use a different skill (Two-Handed Sword in this case), plus weapons normally used with a two-handed skill are treated differently when it comes to Defensive Grip anyway, so I'd say just treat it as Broadsword at -2 to attack.

It does go on to state "Treat a weapon that can be used one- or two-handed – such as a bastard sword or a spear – as two-handed for this purpose," implying you'd have to use Two-Handed Sword and the two-handed rules, but personally I'd be inclined to let you treat it as a one-handed weapon here - it seems weird that a weapon that is designed to be usable one-handed or two-handed, when used by a character who has trained for one-handed use, is actually worse than a one-handed-only weapon when switching to a Defensive Grip...

I want to know how it works according to the rules, but i already got my answer in paragraph about 1,5 handed swords

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by gtrgt

I want to know how it works according to the rules, but i already got my answer in paragraph about 1,5 handed swords

I would think that the "extra hand" bit made it clear that Defensive Grip required the use of two hands. To my understanding of what "Defensive Grip" is supposed to represent in real life martial arts it certainly does require two hands.

I'd make you use Two-Handed Sword. Defensive Grip shouldn't even be part of Broadsword skill.Thats for one-handed weapons.

[DanHoward]

Yep. No Defensive Grip with any one-handed weapon skill.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Yep. No Defensive Grip with any one-handed weapon skill.

So the -2 to skill is meant to apply to two-handed sword skill (for using a weapon with too-short of a handle, I guess), for a net -6 to hit if you're defaulting? That feels a bit excessive (although for a 1.5h sword like the katana, you'd just be at net -4 for defaulting), but maybe that is indeed the intent.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Varyon

So the -2 to skill is meant to apply to two-handed sword skill (for using a weapon with too-short of a handle, I guess), for a net -6 to hit if you're defaulting? That feels a bit excessive (although for a 1.5h sword like the katana, you'd just be at net -4 for defaulting), but maybe that is indeed the intent.

<shrug>The accumulated penalties might be telling you that is isn't a good idea . You're Defaulting Two-Handed Sword from Broadsword which is -4. If Defensive Grip is another -2 from two-Handed sword then, yes you are at a total -6.

If you were using the Late Katana from Martial Arts (which is what the great majority of modern replicas are) I might nto even let you try. There's no place for that extra hand to go except onto the regular grip.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Yep. No Defensive Grip with any one-handed weapon skill.

That isn't what the rule says:

Originally Posted by Martial Arts, p. 109

Defensive Grip
A fighter with at least two hands and a one- or two-
handed melee weapon can use a “strong” two-handed grip
that sacrifices side-to-side movement for frontal defense.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by johndallman

That isn't what the rule says:

The rules:

For any weapon:
+1 to parry attacks from the front
extra -1 to parry attacks from the side.

If using a one-handed weapon:
-2 to attack rolls
+1 to damage
Treat the weapon as two-handed for all purposes.

If using a two-handed weapon:
-1 to odds of breakage
-2 to hit with a Wild Swing
-2 sw damage or -1 sw damage per die, whichever is worse.

Treat a weapon that can be used one- or two-handed – such as a bastard sword or a spear – as two-handed for this purpose.

A warrior with a sword of any kind:
place a hand just behind the tip
reach drops to C
damage becomes thrust impaling – or thrust crushing, if blunt
Swung attacks are impossible
remove -2 from the penalty to target chinks in armor, cumulative with any similar benefit the weapon grants.


A fighter using a Defensive Grip can select any maneuver – even All-Out Attack (but not the Long option) or Committed Attack. Deceptive Attack (p. B369), Rapid Strike (p. B370), Telegraphic Attack (p. 113), and Tip Slash (p. 113) likewise remain viable.

So, a Katana can be used one handed or two handed. It will have the following modifiers when used in a defensive grip because it is treated as being two-handed for the rules purpose:

+1 to parry attacks from the front
extra -1 to parry attacks from the side.
-1 to odds of breakage
-2 to hit with a Wild Swing
-2 sw damage or -1 sw damage per die, whichever is worse.

This means you have to use the two-handed sword skill, and since you only have the broadsword skill, that means you are rolling against Broadsword skill -4. Not -6.

There is no bonus to damage because two-handed weapons already take that into account, I cannot recall where that is stated, though.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

It will have the following modifiers when used in a defensive grip because it is treated as being two-handed for the rules purpose:

Two-handed weapons normally don't suffer those kinds of penalties though, like there's not usually a penalty to use Wild Swing with them.