Permeation with Tunneling vs. Can Carry Objects

[younglorax]

If you have Permeation with Tunneling but not Can Carry Objects, can you let others carry objects through? Can you carry objects through?



I'm trying to make a power that opens doors, for the record. I did find a nifty example here in this thread, but I'm still curious how to build it as modified Permeation.


Also, a tangential Permeation question: Why does Permeation (Everything) cost as much as Insubstantiality? It seems like Insubstantiality has all the same benefits, and then some.

[David Johnston2]

I'm unaware of there being any such thing as "Permeation (Anything)" Very Common is 40 points while Insubstantiality is 80 points. But Permeation Earth would let you physically attack and then dodge into the Earth in the same second. Insubstantiality wouldn't without hefty enhancements.

[younglorax]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I'm unaware of there being any such thing as "Permeation (Anything)" Very Common is 40 points while Insubstantiality is 80 points.

I found it in GCA, pretty sure it's from Powers. I could be wrong. ETA: Also, I have it written incorrectly: it's Permeation (Everything).

But Permeation Earth would let you physically attack and then dodge into the Earth in the same second. Insubstantiality wouldn't without hefty enhancements.

That makes a lot of sense -- thanks!

[David Johnston2]

As far as your other question goes, I don't think you need Can Carry Objects if you have Tunneling.

[munin]

Originally Posted by younglorax

If you have Permeation with Tunneling but not Can Carry Objects, can you let others carry objects through? Can you carry objects through?

This is about the Tunnel enhancement for Warp, but I assume it's relevant to Permeation as well.

"Mystics and ritualists with Warp traditionally open swirling vortices or glowing portals that anyone can step through. A teleporter who can do this requires Tunnel (+40% or +100%) – plus Extra Carrying Capacity, Extra-Heavy (+50%), if he and his companions can bring along anything they can lift." (p. P88, emphasis added)

Originally Posted by younglorax

I'm trying to make a power that opens doors...I'm still curious how to build it as modified Permeation.

Anything like the Create Door ability? (p. P147)

[younglorax]

Anything like the Create Door ability? (p. P147)

Could be, but I don't own Powers.

Originally Posted by munin

This is about the Tunnel enhancement for Warp, but I assume it's relevant to Permeation as well.

"Mystics and ritualists with Warp traditionally open swirling vortices or glowing portals that anyone can step through. A teleporter who can do this requires Tunnel (+40% or +100%) – plus Extra Carrying Capacity, Extra-Heavy (+50%), if he and his companions can bring along anything they can lift." (p. P88, emphasis added)

Hm. Well, the modifier costs are different, but that does suggest that it might be necessary.

One of the main reasons I think otherwise, though, is the description:

Originally Posted by Permeation, B75

Tunnel: You can leave a tunnel (of about your size) behind you, if you choose. This rearranges the object you are moving through without inflicting damage, and does not work at all on living targets.

While maybe you can't carry anything while making the tunnel, it seems like any subsequent pass through the same tunnel should be essentially without restriction.

[SuedodeuS]

A Tunnel that Cannot Carry Objects is one that passing through basically causes the subjects to either be unable to pass through at all while carrying stuff (including clothing) or automatically drop their possessions upon passing though.

The question, then, is if the default cost of Tunneling includes the ability to carry objects. I'm leaning toward "No," but it's a GM call. If no, then a Tunnel through which you can carry stuff must have Can Carry Objects (or whatever is necessary).
Essentially, think of Tunneling as a special version of Affects Others.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by munin

This is about the Tunnel enhancement for Warp, but I assume it's relevant to Permeation as well.

The difference is warp tunnels are temporary glowy portals in the air. So far as I can tell, permeated tunnels are actual holes in the wall, there permanently.

[younglorax]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

A Tunnel that Cannot Carry Objects is one that passing through basically causes the subjects to either be unable to pass through at all while carrying stuff (including clothing) or automatically drop their possessions upon passing though.

This would be a good solution, if you want Tunneling to still be dependent on Can Carry Objects.


It seemed at first like Tunneling would be inherently better than Can Carry Objects if it let you carry stuff through your hole, but I don't think so anymore. That's because it would make sense to have both advantages:

Tunnelman only has tunneling:
(1)Tunnelman is fleeing from Badguy with his ally. He cruises through a wall with all his gear and his ally in tow... but then so does Badguy.
(2)Tunnelman is fleeing from Badguy with his ally. He cruises through the wall... but has to ditch his ally and his gear.

Carryman only has Can Carry Objects:
(3)Carryman is fleeing from Badguy with his ally. He cruises through the wall with all his gear and Badguy can't follow... but neither can his ally.

Carry McTunnel has both
Carry McTunnel is fleeing from Badguy with his ally. He takes his pick from among the three alternatives above.

----

I feel pretty good about the idea that you can carry objects through the tunnel, but I'm still not 100% clear on whether you can be carrying objects while making the tunnel in the first place.

Any thoughts?

[Refplace]

I say tunnel doesnt require can carry objects on permeation becasue it explicitly opens a hole in the wall.
that means others can go through unless its closed which is a tradeoff for not being able to control who can carry waht.