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Old 01-22-2021, 11:55 PM   #1
Mercurae
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default [Psionic Powers] With an Expanded PK Shield, when do rolls occur?

I've scoured books and the forum but I could not figure out exactly how this is supposed to work. PK Shield in Psionic Powers says
Quote:
Every time you are hit by a physical attack, roll against your skill
The Expansion Technique says
Quote:
You can use your ability to protect others, though this halves your effective level (round down). Success expands your coverage to a two-yard radius for a minute. Double this radius, cumulatively, for every 5 points by which you make your (modified) skill roll.
Does this mean you roll at -5 to activate the expanded shield for 1 minute then roll unmodified every time something in the radius (like an ally) gets hit by an attack? This seems the most reasonable but it isn't very clear. When does the Expansion roll occur? Is it activated by an action or can it be used as a reaction to an ally getting hit?
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:31 AM   #2
DangerousThing
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] With an Expanded PK Shield, when do rolls occur?

I would do what the book says.

You roll at a -5 (unless you've bought up the technique), and if you succeed, you protect a 2-yard area (or more, double for each multiple of 5 you make the roll by).

Whenever the shield is hit, you roll against your unmodified skill. At least it isn't modified by the technique, but it might be modified by other things (like have other PK powers running).
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:11 PM   #3
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] With an Expanded PK Shield, when do rolls occur?

The questions posed in this thread are interesting to ask about the Suppression technique too: do you need to expect that a DR-ignoring attack (Cosmic: Irressistible Attack or Malediction) is incoming and make the -5 roll ahead of time to prep for them, or do you just automatically react w/ a -5 roll any time those types of attacks (TK Crush or Innerportation) are made at you?

TK Crush (PP54) is a "no signature" attack so the question is especially valid here, since it could easily be a surprise attack.

Another curious thing about crush: Sense-Based (Reversed) is (P105) normally a -20% discount on Maledictions, so how does Crush's -5% "Must stare intently and directly at the subject" operate differently? It should presumably be more flexible than Vision-Based (Reversed) since it gives only 1/4 the discount, but I'm not sure how.

Maledictions (B106) "can target any victim you can see or otherwise clearly perceive." so taking VBR would normally remove the "otherwise clearly perceive" option.

Perhaps this doesn't? <aybe TK Crush only requires you "stare directly at" but not actually SEE a subject, so long as you can perceive them some other way? IE you could use Detect (Sue Storm) to know the hex Sue is standing in, but to Crush her must stare at that hex, so it's a slight nuisance compared to someone who could crush her without turning their head?

- - -

I'm surprised Innerport (PP70) isn't also No-Sig. I realize it's obvious AFTER the fact (pieces of you get teleported nearby) but until that happens, what exactly would the signs that the Malediction is happening?

This is not Reflexive DR, so should it really be turning itself on against attacks you're not aware of, but somehow magically stay off at other times it would be inconvenient like when you need to get injected with medicine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercurae View Post
Does this mean you roll at -5 to activate the expanded shield for 1 minute then roll unmodified every time something in the radius (like an ally) gets hit by an attack?
It'd be easier if we could just ignore the "per attack" and just keep it a blanket per-minute, then we wouldn't need to worry about anything. It's not always clear crunchwise where bursts of bullets end and "a vicious hailstorm" (PP56) begins, after all.

Per-attack IQ rolls (or skill rolls) would get especially troublesome if you're prone to using Power Block with your PK Shield, like James does on page 9, because then that would be TWO rolls per attack: the first to see if you have DR to work with, the 2nd to see if you go "double or nothing" with it.

PP9 also interestingly says "fails the roll" singular, not "fails the rolls" plural, so it doesn't even acknowledge the idea of him needing to make a roll vs full skill to get the baseline DR to gamble in a Power Block.

I just figure because it's taken for granted "he already had it up so he won't need to roll for a minute".

Defining "requires attribute roll" type stuff as "passive ability" seems troublesome since in theory you shouldn't be able to deactivate passive abilities (only active/switchable ones) and would be forced not only to make the minutely attribute checks, but perhaps even to pay FP to retry after you've failed them.

If it's an active choice to turn on the shield and just passive keeping it up for a minute (ie you can't choose to bring it down until that minute is up) that could require some emphasis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercurae View Post
This seems the most reasonable but it isn't very clear. When does the Expansion roll occur? Is it activated by an action or can it be used as a reaction to an ally getting hit?
Unlike +10% switchable which requires a Ready (unless you take Reduced Time) having a -10% requires attribute seems to allow switching it on as a free action and similarly pay no action to shut it off.

In other examples of free-action abilities you want to switch on during someone else's turn (such as switching on Insubstantiality when a foe tries to punch you) you need to roll a "Power Dodge" to react fast enough to do it in time.

That feels entirely appropriate for DR which isn't already on, if you're trying to switch it on in response to a successful attack roll.

ESPECIALLY when it's not you getting attacked, and you have a variable AE that you're tailoring to ongoing variables in attacks.

If someone wants to avoid doing something akin to a Power Dodge it feels like they ought to begin reacting further in advance than a successful strike roll, like the attack being declared but not rolled yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousThing View Post
if you succeed, you protect a 2-yard area (or more, double for each multiple of 5 you make the roll by).
never noticed that MoS bit, that's an interesting feature.

PP already deviates from how Temporary Enhancements worked in Powers (single skill roll, not a distinct one) so I guess this is another example.

A favorable one for psis compared to other power-users, since in powers if you wanted the potential of gaining a higher power increase (not just in Temporary Enhancements, but in Extra Effort and Using Abilities at Default too...) you had to incur a greater risk of failure. Here it seems like there's no risk: if you can't make a hard enough roll to get a huge AE, you at least get a small AE.

I admit I do kinda like this idea. Gambling for higher powers should maybe not be entirely all-or-nothing.

In classic "Powers" fashion you could do that by making distinct Temporary Enhancements attempts, and just make multiple low-penalty rolls for each increment of AE, rather than a single high-penalty roll for several increments of AE bundled.

That would take more time to do though, since it's a separate Ready/Concentrate for each attempt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousThing View Post
Whenever the shield is hit, you roll against your unmodified skill.
Being super-literal, the only condition for rolling listed is "you are hit" which wouldn't apply when others are.

I think "protect others" reasonably implies that to be a "plural you" though.

Last edited by Plane; 01-23-2021 at 04:20 PM.
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