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Old 06-21-2012, 06:02 PM   #1
Arvernian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

I'm working on a fantasy setting where priests gain their powers (in this case power investiture) by drinking the blood of a living demigod. I've modeled the ability (from the perspective of the "deity") like so.

The Fluff:

A mortal who wishes to serve one of eight powerful immortals in control of a gigantic urban complex approaches the being in question and swears an oath after which he drinks the demigod's blood and receives the ability through his connection to channel mana into the form of spells. The downside is that for as long as the Power Investiture lasts, the mortal must obey the demigod's commands without question.

The Crunch:

Blood of the Gods: 270 pts.

Affliction 3 (HT-2, Advantage (Power Investiture), Cumulative [+500%], Blood Agent [-40%], Extended Duration (Permanent) [+150%], Link [+10%]

Affliction 3 (HT-2, Disadvantage (Reprogrammable) [+10%], Accessibility (only has to follow orders from one sorcerer king) [-40%], Blood Agent [-40%], Extended Duration (Permanent) [+150%], Link [+10%]

My questions are as follows:

1) Is the math right?

2) Are all of the traits used correctly (can I use Blood Agent 2x to limit both linked attacks or does it apply only once to the whole package?).

3)Is there a more efficient way to do this that will cost fewer points? I should note that I want to keep the two traits linked rather than having them as multiple effects of the same Affliction since that allows a character to particularly gain the bonus without taking the penalty (thus allowing a cleric to turn against his god, an important plot point).

4) Does this seem reasonably balanced for the point cost?

Any input is appreciated.
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:50 PM   #2
Lamech
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
1) Is the math right?
Not quite, the accessibility on the second one applies to reprogrammable, (making it only a 6 point disadvantage or +6%) not the affliction itself.
Quote:
2) Are all of the traits used correctly (can I use Blood Agent 2x to limit both linked attacks or does it apply only once to the whole package?).
Sure. (Well not the accessibility mentioned above but otherwise.

Quote:
3)Is there a more efficient way to do this that will cost fewer points? I should note that I want to keep the two traits linked rather than having them as multiple effects of the same Affliction since that allows a character to particularly gain the bonus without taking the penalty (thus allowing a cleric to turn against his god, an important plot point).
The GM could declare that for this affliction a health roll is made for each effect, and then add both to the same affliction. Also changing it to a malediction and buying a bunch of will would make it more effective and cheaper by a nice margin. Or making it a side affect (is that the right one?) of a innate attack that also has no wounding.

Quote:
4) Does this seem reasonably balanced for the point cost?
Hell, no. The god can just take a random person, shove an endless supply of blood down said person's throat and give, PI 2000 to the hapless priest.
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:48 PM   #3
Arvernian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
Not quite, the accessibility on the second one applies to reprogrammable, (making it only a 6 point disadvantage or +6%) not the affliction itself.
Sure. (Well not the accessibility mentioned above but otherwise.
Point taken. I'll adjust the point cost accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamech View Post

The GM could declare that for this affliction a health roll is made for each effect, and then add both to the same affliction. Also changing it to a malediction and buying a bunch of will would make it more effective and cheaper by a nice margin. Or making it a side affect (is that the right one?) of a innate attack that also has no wounding.
Malediction says it can't be combined with other penetration mods and Blood Agent is a penetration Mod IIRC. The Innate Attack idea might work but it seems like more of a number shuffle than it's worth and while technically legal I think it's out of keeping with the spirit of how the division between Afflictions (non damaging) and Innate Attack (damaging) are supposed to work here. I may run the numbers again with Reprogrammable as a secondary effect of the core Affliction instead of a linked attack in it's own right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
Hell, no. The god can just take a random person, shove an endless supply of blood down said person's throat and give, PI 2000 to the hapless priest.
You do bring up a good point. But here are a couple of other ones to which I hope you will respond:

1) If I read it correctly Power Investiture is pretty much useless if the person in question doesn't have the time and/or character points to invest in spells. So yeah he could theoretically grab a bum off the street and make him a Priest but said Priest will then have to spend more points/time to learn a useful spell as an IQ/Hard or Very Hard Spell.

2) The Demigods are immortal but not invulnerable. In fact I plan on having the campaign revolve around the PCs taking one out. There should be a HP cost associated with someone else drinking your blood. Unfortunately I can't find such a limitation in the basic set. The closest is "Costs Fatigue". Or perhaps limited use, once per day.

3) I want to limit Power Investiture and Magery to 3 levels, so the most any individual person would get a +3 to learn priestly magic. Not sure that this is a limitation or a 0 point feature.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:00 PM   #4
Tuoni
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvernian View Post
I want to limit Power Investiture and Magery to 3 levels, so the most any individual person would get a +3 to learn priestly magic. Not sure that this is a limitation or a 0 point feature.
Buy the Affliction with Power Investiture at the max level possible instead of Cumulative. Then add something like Nuisance Effect:Can only give one level at a time. -X%

Edit: X is based on how limiting you think this is. I'd go -5%. Kinda annoying but not likely to cause problems. Also, this way you can explicitly state more powerful demigods being capable of creating more powerful priests.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:27 PM   #5
Lamech
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvernian View Post

Malediction says it can't be combined with other penetration mods and Blood Agent is a penetration Mod IIRC. The Innate Attack idea might work but it seems like more of a number shuffle than it's worth and while technically legal I think it's out of keeping with the spirit of how the division between Afflictions (non damaging) and Innate Attack (damaging) are supposed to work here. I may run the numbers again with Reprogrammable as a secondary effect of the core Affliction instead of a linked attack in it's own right.
Add accessibility "only works on people who just drank my blood"-X%. Right now the affliction is way more expensive than it should be.

Quote:
1) If I read it correctly Power Investiture is pretty much useless if the person in question doesn't have the time and/or character points to invest in spells. So yeah he could theoretically grab a bum off the street and make him a Priest but said Priest will then have to spend more points/time to learn a useful spell as an IQ/Hard or Very Hard Spell.
Okay so it takes a few months to train up a priest. Still totally broken if they get any use from it what so ever. Cumulative is just a bad modifier. I would just make the demigod buy sufficient levels of the advantage.

P.S. Point optimization doesn't matter for unless the PC's might somehow get access to the ability.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:44 PM   #6
Sunrunners_Fire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvernian View Post
Blood of the Gods: 270 pts.

Affliction 3 (HT-2, Advantage (Power Investiture), Cumulative [+500%], Blood Agent [-40%], Extended Duration (Permanent) [+150%], Link [+10%]

Affliction 3 (HT-2, Disadvantage (Reprogrammable) [+10%], Accessibility (only has to follow orders from one sorcerer king) [-40%], Blood Agent [-40%], Extended Duration (Permanent) [+150%], Link [+10%]

My questions are as follows:

1) Is the math right?
Assuming that you are using the standard additive modifiers ...
  • Affliction 3 (HT-2; Advantage (Power Investiture), +100%; Cumulative, +400%; Extended Duration (Permanent with Dispelling Conditions), +150%; Link (Powers must be used together), +10%; Blood Agent, -40%) [216]
  • Affliction 3 (HT-2; Disadvantage (Reprogrammable), +10%; Extended Duration (Permanent with Dispelling Conditions), +150%; Link (Powers must be used together), +10%; Accessibility (Only has to follow orders from one sorcerer king), -40%; Blood Agent, -40%) [57]
Total: [273]

Your math is off.

Quote:
2) Are all of the traits used correctly (can I use Blood Agent 2x to limit both linked attacks or does it apply only once to the whole package?).
No, some of the traits you are using aren't being used correctly. You appear to be misusing Accessibility and also to be potentially misusing Extended Duration.

You are using Blood Agent correctly.

Quote:
3)Is there a more efficient way to do this that will cost fewer points? I should note that I want to keep the two traits linked rather than having them as multiple effects of the same Affliction since that allows a character to particularly gain the bonus without taking the penalty (thus allowing a cleric to turn against his god, an important plot point).
Assuming that you are using the standard additive modifiers ...
  • Affliction 3 (HT-2; Advantage (Power Investiture), +100%; Cumulative, +400%; Extended Duration (Permanent with Dispelling Conditions), +150%; Link (Powers must be used together), +10%; Blood Agent, -40%; Costs Hit Points 1, -10%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%) [202.5, rounded up to 203]
  • Affliction 3 (HT-2; Disadvantage (modified Reprogrammable), +10%; Extended Duration (Permanent with Dispelling Conditions), +150%; Link (Powers must be used together), +10%; Blood Agent, -40%; Costs Hit Points 1, -10%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%) [55.5, rounded up to 56]
    • modified Reprogrammable (Feature (Only by the one who afflicted this disadvantage), -0%) [-10]
Total: [259]

... and then you just have to be creative with the dispelling conditions.

Quote:
4) Does this seem reasonably balanced for the point cost?
I would suggest not asking question 4 (or similar) on these forums. It only invites people who have a different idea of "balance" from the authors and editors to expound on the subject. This tends to result in a great deal of unnecessary confusion and also tends to be counter-productive for threads that aren't about doing exactly that (expounding on the subject of "balance").

Last edited by Sunrunners_Fire; 06-22-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:21 AM   #7
Arvernian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire View Post

No, some of the traits you are using aren't being used correctly. You appear to be misusing Accessibility and also to be potentially misusing Extended Duration.
Misusing Accessibility because I applied it to the whole Affliction instead of just the disadvantage? How am I misusing Extended Duration? Is the ability for the user to cancel the effect at any time not enough of a reasonable limitation on permanent duration?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire View Post

Assuming that you are using the standard additive modifiers ...
  • Affliction 3 (HT-2; Advantage (Power Investiture), +100%; Cumulative, +400%; Extended Duration (Permanent with Dispelling Conditions), +150%; Link (Powers must be used together), +10%; Blood Agent, -40%; Costs Hit Points 1, -10%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%) [202.5, rounded up to 203]
  • Affliction 3 (HT-2; Disadvantage (modified Reprogrammable), +10%; Extended Duration (Permanent with Dispelling Conditions), +150%; Link (Powers must be used together), +10%; Blood Agent, -40%; Costs Hit Points 1, -10%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%) [55.5, rounded up to 56]
    • modified Reprogrammable (Feature (Only by the one who afflicted this disadvantage), -0%) [-10]
Total: [259]
... and then you just have to be creative with the dispelling conditions.
Is "Costs HP" in the Basic Set? I cannot find it for the life of me. Is it part of the errata?
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:32 AM   #8
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvernian View Post

Any input is appreciated.
Is it worth mentioning that the standard way to build a PC god is to buy the priesthood as an ally group and leave it at that?
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:32 AM   #9
Sunrunners_Fire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvernian View Post
Misusing Accessibility because I applied it to the whole Affliction instead of just the disadvantage?
Because the accessibility doesn't apply to the affliction at all and because attempting to apply the accessibility to the afflicted disadvantage doesn't actually change the disadvantage's behavior in any non-negligible manner - a limitation that doesn't limit isn't a limitation.

Quote:
How am I misusing Extended Duration? Is the ability for the user to cancel the effect at any time not enough of a reasonable limitation on permanent duration?
I was careful to state that you were potentially misusing it - as I'm not completely clear on what the dispelling conditions are, I can't be certain one way or the other. Hence my comment of "... and then you just have to be creative with the dispelling conditions."

Quote:
Is "Costs HP" in the Basic Set? I cannot find it for the life of me. Is it part of the errata?
GURPS Powers, pg 110.

I didn't see you specify that it has to be Basic Set only; is that a restriction? It is generally assumed that unless you specify which books you are using (and thereby which books are prohibited), that every published book is available for use.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:48 AM   #10
Arvernian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: New Advantage: Blood of the Gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire View Post
Because the accessibility doesn't apply to the affliction at all and because attempting to apply the accessibility to the afflicted disadvantage doesn't actually change the disadvantage's behavior in any non-negligible manner - a limitation that doesn't limit isn't a limitation.
In this case it would change who can reprogram the character...from everybody in the disadvantage as written to just one person in my version.
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