[Psionic Powers] Gestalts Only limitation?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

OK, that's simple enough. Thank you. I'll just need to ask Daragon if he had a minimum number involved (the non-vampire I intended it for just has a minimum of 2).

We like simple rules that can do a lot. :-)

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Does it matter if one of the involved characters has a level or two without the limitation, and the rest of their levels with?

Not at all. It'd be like saying "I get 10 levels of TK in sunlight, but have 10 levels normally." Just make sure you price it correctly.

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

If someone has the psi power without that limitation, can they still join the gestalt?

Sure, I don't see why not. You'd just get a extra boost if the guy you have the "permanent gestalt" with joins - just remember not to halve the power add its full level. For example, if you have three psis who:

A: Has TK Grab 10 and TK Grab 10 (Only with B).
B: Has TK Grab 10 and TK Grab 10 (Only with A.
C: Has TK Grab 10

Then if you gestalted with A and B you'd get a TK of 25 (10 for the highest level, 10 for the combined power, and half of the highest level). Now if C joined in you'd just add another 5 to the TK Grab level increasing it to TK Grab 30 for the gestalt.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Actually, it is, basically you figure the final cost of the ability and then divide it among the number of people who are required to use it. For example, if you need five people to use a 100-point ability, then each person would need to pay 20 points. You'd then use the normal rules for said ability, but only one person can use it at a time and it counts as a action for all those involved. Use the rules for gestalt powers to determine distance (i.e., if you need to have physical contact or not). It gets tricky when you want a ability that only takes a smaller number of people to use, but can be used by a larger number. Using the previously example, if you only need 2 people to activate the ability, then it's cost would go to 50 points, but anyone who wants to buy it could. You could for example have 10 people buy the ability, needing only two of them to activate it at one time.

That would work fine for a normal power, but it looks like it may not fit for Gestalts which already have rules for how the power functions. It really looks more like a standard limitation to me, like Ceremonial Only Magery.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

That would work fine for a normal power, but it looks like it may not fit for Gestalts which already have rules for how the power functions. It really looks more like a standard limitation to me, like Ceremonial Only Magery.

Ceremonial Only Magery is exactly that - for Magery. Allowing a -40% limitation is way to generous. GURPS Powers goes into this on p. 99:

Some supernatural abilities require ritual or worship by others to
work. To evaluate “Only with assistants,” halve the basic point value that Maintenance (p. B143) gives for that number of people and write it as a percentage; e.g., 11-20 people is -25%.

Since you need at least two people to perform a gestalt, the Accessibility for "Gestalt only" would be a -5% limitation, not -40%.

[Prince Charon]

OK, so the answer I was looking for was '-5%', since it's 'Gestalts only', not 'I am sharing the cost of the power with these specific people', which is what your new rule appears to mean.

Maybe -10% if, for example, it's 'Gestalts with other vampires Only'?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

OK, so the answer I was looking for was '-5%', since it's 'Gestalts only', not 'I am sharing the cost of the power with these specific people', which is what your new rule appears to mean.

Maybe -10% if, for example, it's 'Gestalts with other vampires Only'?

That's a whole other modifier. How common are vampires? I'd add the two modifiers together after you determine how common vampires are.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

That's a whole other modifier. How common are vampires? I'd add the two modifiers together after you determine how common vampires are.

Good point. The way Daragon described them (and I agreed, because it fit the setting), they're not common, but as they are in many cases part of the same Military Order (Ordo Sacri Vampir), they tend to be found in groups. I'll PM Daragon when I'm more awake.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Good point. The way Daragon described them (and I agreed, because it fit the setting), they're not common, but as they are in many cases part of the same Military Order (Ordo Sacri Vampir), they tend to be found in groups. I'll PM Daragon when I'm more awake.

Once you find out how rare vampires are, use that to figure out the Accessibility value. Then divide the final cost of the power by the minimum vampires required to make it work. That way, any X vampires who bought in can work together to bring in a storm and block out the Sun for a few hours.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Ceremonial Only Magery is exactly that - for Magery. Allowing a -40% limitation is way to generous. GURPS Powers goes into this on p. 99:



Since you need at least two people to perform a gestalt, the Accessibility for "Gestalt only" would be a -5% limitation, not -40%.

-40% might be too much, but -5% looks like way too little to me (is it supposed to be -10% if you need two people?), since you lose the ability to do anything by yourself, and you have to go through the linking process, etc. I was thinking -20% or maybe even a little more.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Good point. The way Daragon described them (and I agreed, because it fit the setting), they're not common, but as they are in many cases part of the same Military Order (Ordo Sacri Vampir), they tend to be found in groups. I'll PM Daragon when I'm more awake.

Ok.

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Once you find out how rare vampires are, use that to figure out the Accessibility value. Then divide the final cost of the power by the minimum vampires required to make it work. That way, any X vampires who bought in can work together to bring in a storm and block out the Sun for a few hours.

That might allow for the cheapest way to purchase it, yes.

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

-40% might be too much, but -5% looks like way too little to me (is it supposed to be -10% if you need two people?), since you lose the ability to do anything by yourself, and you have to go through the linking process, etc. I was thinking -20% or maybe even a little more.

It's -5% because it can be any other person to help you activate it. It doesn't have to be a vampire or whatever, just another psi. That's where the other Accessibility limitation comes in. If it requires both a gestalt to use and the one you are gestalting with must be a vampire then it becomes cheaper. So really it's (-5%) + (-N%) = final modifier for the power to be used only while gestalted with at least one other vampire. Now, if the gestalt requires more than one vampire (and I think he said something like that) then the modifier is going to go up for gestalt's only.

[Prince Charon]

I've PM'd Dargaron (which is the name he uses, 'Daragon' was my memory being faulty), so he should respond when he has time. I'm not sure how long that will be, since I think he might be in college - or might be a professor - if I'm not mixing him up with someone else.

The article he wrote had five hundred or so vampires in the Ordo Sacri Vampyre, but there may be others surviving. I wonder, though, whether the Accessibility limitation should be based on the number of vampires as a fraction of the world population (somewhere around 450,000,000 people, so about one in nine hundred thousand, not counting however many aren't in the Ordo), or as a fraction of the population of just that part of the world, since at least the members of the Ordo aren't likely to range that far afield.