Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2014, 04:44 PM   #41
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
This is the kind of thing that I'm against, and that I think is against the spirit of the trait. Any good to come out of it (WM) should be completely incidental, and not something that you (as the character with it) could count on as a dependable benefit. .
In fact "dependable" isn't really something that should be part of Weirdness Magnet in general. Even in the case of themed Weirdness Magnets, like Origin Magnet they should still be capricious and usually troublesome.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 06:34 PM   #42
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
In fact "dependable" isn't really something that should be part of Weirdness Magnet in general. Even in the case of themed Weirdness Magnets, like Origin Magnet they should still be capricious and usually troublesome.
Yeah, although Origins Magnet as it is written looks like it could attract bargain-seekers thinking it's an easy way to get allies.
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 11:37 PM   #43
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf View Post
Another view would be to get reading that WM produces and the precog can never believe that such strangeness happens so frequently to an individual.
This sounds like a way to go. The psion's power might be working perfectly, be he can't credit what he's seeing.

Or, if precognition sees possibilities, he might simply have trouble sorting things out. For ex, it's possible (depending on the campaign world) that even a non-WM might encounter a crashed alien, a vampire, and a mob boss in a single evening. But it's very, very improbable, so such a vision would normally be dismissed as so unlikely as to be ignorable.

The exact same vision around the WM might be a high-order probability, but it might take the psion some time to realize that.
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 11:55 PM   #44
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK View Post
I would never allow Weirdness Magnet to make another PC immune or even partially immune to psi. It's a disadvantage, not an advantage. People treating Weirdness Magnet as some sort of beneficial thing is one of my biggest pet peeves.

If you want to involve Weirdness Magnet, flip it around. Treat it as the disadvantage it is. How about this? The precog is able to get amazingly clear visions of what the magnet is going to do because by some weird quick of fate the magnet happens to resonate at the psychic frequency that this precog is most tuned in to.
While I agree with the essence of this, even the most extreme Disads can sometimes carry a circumstantial side-benefit. WM can be played as a Disad and still produce the occasional benefit, it becomes a problem when it starts becoming 'cool' instead of usually bad and when it becomes predictable and plannable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
How is it different? PK is saying that it is a disadvantage and should be treated as one. You should not let that trait be the reason an enemy Precog can't get accurate visions of the character. That would be something different, maybe a minor advantage or a Perk.
Total Blindness is a big howling huge Disad. Yet it's not cheating or even violating the spirit of the Disad if an enemy happens to like to throw flashbombs around, and the Blind PC is immune to the effect. It's an incidental benefit that arose from the nature of the Disad.

Now, if the enemy keeps trying to use flashbombs to dazzle the Blind PC long after he should have wised up, that would be another issue. But the Blind PC gains something from his Disad as long as Mr. Flashbomb doesn't know he's blind, just incidentally from the nature of the situation.

That WM is a Disad is certainly true, but it's also not unreasonable that it might cause some kind of issue with precognition, if only by causing the precognitive to have trouble believing his own power. Depending on how WM works, it might also reasonably produce strange interactions with people who have Luck that might be occasionally beneficial, and still be overall a big Disad.

Over time, even the precog effect might turn out to be bad, for that matter, by drawing attention. But it's a reasonable interaction, in the same way a Blind PC might end up being the one who is unaffected by the flashbombs...or by a supernatural monster that needs visual eye-contact to mesmerize. Some things just arise from the nature of a situation.
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 06:43 AM   #45
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Total Blindness is a big howling huge Disad. Yet it's not cheating or even violating the spirit of the Disad if an enemy happens to like to throw flashbombs around, and the Blind PC is immune to the effect. It's an incidental benefit that arose from the nature of the Disad.

Now, if the enemy keeps trying to use flashbombs to dazzle the Blind PC long after he should have wised up, that would be another issue. But the Blind PC gains something from his Disad as long as Mr. Flashbomb doesn't know he's blind, just incidentally from the nature of the situation.

That WM is a Disad is certainly true, but it's also not unreasonable that it might cause some kind of issue with precognition, if only by causing the precognitive to have trouble believing his own power. Depending on how WM works, it might also reasonably produce strange interactions with people who have Luck that might be occasionally beneficial, and still be overall a big Disad.

Over time, even the precog effect might turn out to be bad, for that matter, by drawing attention. But it's a reasonable interaction, in the same way a Blind PC might end up being the one who is unaffected by the flashbombs...or by a supernatural monster that needs visual eye-contact to mesmerize. Some things just arise from the nature of a situation.
I mentioned incidental benefits just a couple of posts (of mine) ago. The "benefits" of Blindness are known because it is a RW trait, and how it interacts with supernatural or other effects can be fairly easily extrapolated. If a character wanted to blind himself to become immune to Medusa's gaze, he could do it, and also gain immunity from flashes, sight-based hypnotism, and so on. That stuff is factored into Blindness by our knowledge of what the disadvantage is representing. There is no such knowledge in the case of Weirdness Magnet. We don't have any background suggesting benefits that are not stated in its description. Putting them in there is thus undercutting the negative impact that it is supposed to have on the owning character. As a one-time thing, it's probably not a big deal, but if you have it so a character with WM can rely on that effect, or other such beneficial side-effects, then you should adjust the price of the trait to reflect the built-in advantage.
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 07:46 AM   #46
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

On a related note, I see that Jürgen's The Big List of Weirdness Magnet Weirdness is showing a recent uptick in activity, with new posts giving more examples of the kinds of things that can happen to someone with WM.

I'll happily take partial and undeserved credit :)
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 08:05 AM   #47
Danukian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MI
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
This is the kind of thing that I'm against, and that I think is against the spirit of the trait. Any good to come out of it (WM) should be completely incidental, and not something that you (as the character with it) could count on as a dependable benefit.
I agree it shouldn't be any thing dependable - any benefit should be rare, random and weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
The only thing like that that is guaranteed is the non-negative reaction from supernatural investigators, etc., mentioned in the text. Otherwise, I'd say that any good that seems to arise by dint of your magnetism is either a false benefit, or a precursor to more trouble
Okay, if that's your interpretation. I just find it an odd reading of "Nothing lethal happens to you, at least not immediately, and occasionally some weirdness is beneficial. But most of the time it is terribly, terribly inconvenient."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
That stuff is factored into Blindness by our knowledge of what the disadvantage is representing. There is no such knowledge in the case of Weirdness Magnet. We don't have any background suggesting benefits that are not stated in its description. Putting them in there is thus undercutting the negative impact that it is supposed to have on the owning character. As a one-time thing, it's probably not a big deal, but if you have it so a character with WM can rely on that effect, or other such beneficial side-effects, then you should adjust the price of the trait to reflect the built-in advantage.
Again, I don't think think it should be dependable - random and weird are the keys, and any benefit should be at most on a 1:5 ratio with inconvenient. But I DO think it's factored in. The disadvantage you are describing, with only dangerous supernatural events happening sounds more like Cursed (Supernatural Weirdness Only, -20%) [60] plus Reputation -2 (Anyone Aware of the Weirdness, x1/2) [-5] and Reputation +3 (Parapsychologists and Cultists, x1/3) [5]. My reading of the two disadvantages leads me to believe "Nothing lethal happens to you, at least not immediately, and occasionally some weirdness is beneficial. But most of the time it is terribly, terribly inconvenient." has some occasional (not dependable) benefit, and is worth 1/4 of "When anything goes wrong for your party, it happens to you, first and worst. If something goes right, it misses you. Any time the GM feels like hosing you, he can, and you have no complaint coming, because you are Cursed. You can’t buy this off just by spending points – you must determine what has cursed you and deal with it, and then spend the points." tweaked towards supernatural events instead of just any mundane unluckiness.
Danukian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 08:06 AM   #48
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Over time, even the precog effect might turn out to be bad, for that matter, by drawing attention.
Or screaming out to the enemy precog the exact location of the character.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The real question here is how important is precog to the setting? Are we in a world full of super-powers, or is it one of the core effects of the setting? If we are in four color supers setting I have no problem with the WM being an annoying and blatant blind spot for a precog. If we are in star wars, with precog as a notable ability in a fairly limited set, I'm not going to be ok with it.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:48 AM   #49
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Psis vs Weirdness Magnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
Again, I don't think think it should be dependable - random and weird are the keys, and any benefit should be at most on a 1:5 ratio with inconvenient. But I DO think it's factored in. The disadvantage you are describing, with only dangerous supernatural events happening sounds more like Cursed (Supernatural Weirdness Only, -20%) [60] plus Reputation -2 (Anyone Aware of the Weirdness, x1/2) [-5] and Reputation +3 (Parapsychologists and Cultists, x1/3) [5].
I don't think I said or implied "dangerous", but your build does resemble one way I like to look at Weirdness Magnet, which is an image PK invoked in his article on the subject, where he refers to Cursed (Inconveniences only, -80%).
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
psi, weirdness magnet

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.