Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2022, 09:10 AM   #41
Žorkell
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
 
Žorkell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reykjavķk, Iceland
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
It is just the USA, Liberia, and Myanmar now. All Commonwealth countries are metric. The main holdouts in other countries are people who were educated before the 1970s.
The UK seems to be in some weird in between mode. Distances on road signs are in miles, weight of people are in pounds and stone. Speed limits seem to be in miles per hour. As far as I can see they use Celcius to measure heat.
__________________
Žorkell Sigvaldason

Viking kittens | My photos | More of my photos
Žorkell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2022, 09:52 AM   #42
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
It's why the Chinese word "dao" (which is literally "knife" or by extension "single-edged blade") is translated as "saber" when it's part of a compound name for swords even when they're 5 feet long ("zhanmadao"). <shrug>"Horse beheading knife" would be odd too.
Well, the German term messer (also literally translates to knife), but sees very similar use. The (IMO doubtful) story is that peasants couldn't own a sword, but weren't no rule against five foot long knives.
__________________
RyanW
- Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats.
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2022, 10:39 AM   #43
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Well, the German term messer (also literally translates to knife), but sees very similar use. The (IMO doubtful) story is that peasants couldn't own a sword, but weren't no rule against five foot long knives.
Shadiversity did a video on this. It's been a while since I watched it, but IIRC he notes that the "more legal to carry" bit is incorrect, and rather the legal distinction between a knife and sword (which largely came down to handle construction) had to do with who could make them. Essentially, the messer-style sword was a sword that the Knifemakers Guild could legally create and sell, to compete with the Swordmakers Guild (I think the latter also made some knives that had a sword-style handle to return the favor and step on the Knifemakers Guild's toes a bit).
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2022, 12:06 PM   #44
Quinlor
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Well, the German term messer (also literally translates to knife), but sees very similar use. The (IMO doubtful) story is that peasants couldn't own a sword, but weren't no rule against five foot long knives.
Interestingly this meaning is totaly lost in modern German. Today Messer is only used for kinves, never for swords.
__________________
http://www.quinlor.de
Quinlor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2022, 12:19 PM   #45
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
It is just the USA, Liberia, and Myanmar now. All Commonwealth countries are metric. The main holdouts in other countries are people who were educated before the 1970s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Žorkell View Post
The UK seems to be in some weird in between mode. Distances on road signs are in miles, weight of people are in pounds and stone. Speed limits seem to be in miles per hour. As far as I can see they use Celcius to measure heat.

Commonwealth countries are more complex in their measuring that first meets the eye. They all have weird holdouts in specific industries and contexts. Its actually fairly fun reading (at least for me). For example, the Canadian Railroad and Construction industries still operate in imperial units. There are also places that are on paper metric but are as likely to use imperial as long as you aren't in a legal context, like Guyanna.


But yes, converting is painful. At least in the gaming context you don't have to be that precise, so you can get away with 1lb = 0.4kg or even 1 yard = 1 meter.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2022, 01:26 PM   #46
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
But yes, converting is painful.
I don't find conversion painful. It's one reason I'm not surprised that metric hasn't replaced US Customary in the US. Over the seas they may speak of "holdouts" but over here there's basically no force being applied that people have to hold out against.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2022, 01:28 PM   #47
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
I don't find conversion painful. It's one reason I'm not surprised that metric hasn't replaced US Customary in the US. Over the seas they may speak of "holdouts" but over here there's basically no force being applied that people have to hold out against.
Outside of the military or the classroom, anyway. I've seen some tantrums around metric in both.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2022, 06:29 PM   #48
Donny Brook
 
Donny Brook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

It would be rare for a Canadian-born person to give their height or weight in metric. But nobody under 60 ever talks about temperature in Fahrenheit.
Donny Brook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2022, 07:32 PM   #49
Prince Charon
 
Prince Charon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Žorkell View Post
The UK seems to be in some weird in between mode. Distances on road signs are in miles, weight of people are in pounds and stone. Speed limits seem to be in miles per hour. As far as I can see they use Celcius to measure heat.
Also, there are still some prices that are given in guineas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
If you alter ancient society to create the social conditions where the rapier became common (a light sword which could be worn with civilian clothing) then there's no reason why Bronze Age Rapiers couldn't have been used with fencing technique.

Given what we know about Celtic costume and armor, it's possible that "Celtic Rapiers" could have been used with a fencing stance, possibly with a buckler or cloak to protect the off hand. Just substitute wool plaid for silk velvet and Cornish bronze for Milanese steel. GURPS Swashbucklers + Celtic Myth actually sounds like a lot of fun.
Thank you.
__________________
Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life.

"The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates."
-- Tacitus

Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 12/17/2022: Apocrypha: Bridges out of Time, Part I has been posted.
Prince Charon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2022, 01:37 PM   #50
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [Low-Tech] Smallsword with the Bronze Age 'Rapier?'

Before this thread vanishes completely I want to pose the question of "What about fencing with shortswords?".

We'd be talking about TL2 blades with real tangs and pommels being used by adventurous types without heavy armor (to the extent it even existed in the time period) or shields (most of which were quite large and bulky).

This would be the sort of thing you saw in many of the movies of the "sword and sandals" genre of the 60s because the available swordmasters didn't know much outside of western academic fencing.

In favor of the proposition the blades in question were faster and better balanced than later long swords. Smallsword Skill also says "Any light thrusting sword". You would be excluding the heaviest swords of the gladius type (most of them over 2 lbs) and non-thrusting blades like the khopis or falcata.

Other than those I'm not seeing huge arguments agist it.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fencing skill, low-tech, martial arts

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.