03-16-2023, 09:33 AM | #1 |
Join Date: May 2021
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How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
Ok, this has been discussed in one form or another often, but somehow my search-fu is failing me today. I've literally gone too far down the rabbit hole and have lost my way ...
Here's what I'm trying to accomplish:
My Problem is choosing the "correct" modifiers. I've tried a few and ended up with wildly different costs depending on choice. Here are some of the additional challenges that make this difficult to grasp for me:
Here is one of my “builds” Affliction 1 with the following modifiers:
I've wrestled with stuff like "Melee Attack", Sense Based, Reversed (Touch), looked at Cosmic etc... Really I'm at a loss on how to do this... Affliction needs "to hit", so I assume it's used via an attack maneuver with Innate Attack (?) skill. Would I need the Melee Attack modifier to make it close combat? If so, which one? "No Parry", ok definitely, but Reach? How About Malediction? I seems to be made just for such stuff but has components that really don't work for me. Like making it a concentrate instead of attack. Ignoring DR totally is, well ... rather too much. The Quick-Contest would be OK, though ... ... Help ... please! hahahah! |
03-16-2023, 10:04 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
I'm not really sure what QN is, but from context it's a stat.
I think the rules legal way to do this is: Universal melee attack (whatever necessary modifiers; Linked to Affliction +20%) [some cost] Affliction 1 (Accessiblity (only on targets of universal melee attack) -40%; Linked to universal melee attack +20%; Maleditction +50%...) [some other cost] The link means both attacks have to be used together but are a single maneuver. The Accessibility limitation means the Malediction doesn't take effect unless the melee attack hits (though it doesn't have to do damage). I'd use Follow-Up, but Follow-up and Malediction are both penetration modifiers and can't be used on the same advantage. A possibly simpler build might be: Universal melee attack (whatever necessary modifiers) [some cost] Affliction 1 (Cosmic: rules exception (follow-up and malediction) +50%; Follow-Up +whatever%; Malediction +50%) [some other cost] The second build is simpler but possibly more expensive. It's also clearer. A third way to do this would be: Imbuement 3 [40] Crippling Blow (Weapon) DX/VH+0 [8] Stupefying Blow (Weapon) DX/VH+0 [8] which would let you apply any physical or mental disadvantage to the target if you hit and damage them and they fail a modified HT check. See Power-Ups 1: Imbuements pp 4-7 and 10 for more details. It's possibly a Perk to change the target of the resistance roll for Stupefying Blow and Crippling Blow to some other attribute. But those two skills have other limitations and requirements so this might not be an ideal solution either.
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03-17-2023, 01:37 AM | #3 | ||||
Join Date: May 2021
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
Thanks for your answer.
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not sure what Link (B106, right?) would do here. The Attack (touching the defender in some way) is not an advantage. Unless 'universal melee attack' is an advantage of some kind which I don't understand. And if I choose the 10% Link version (have to be used together, then I can't punch an opponent (or hit him with a stick) without using the other Advantage? Also, what does Malediction add to the mix here? I really don't see why that would be necessary here. To the contrary, I really don't want the "ignore DR" part of Malediction. Quote:
-x% only after a successful hit bare handed or with a magic weapon / staff / wand etc. Quote:
Thanks for your suggestions Maybe for further clarification on what I'm trying to achieve: I want to move from "Spells as Skill" (Standard way of magic) to "Spell as Powers" but keep some of the mechanics of the "Melee Spells" (M11). |
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03-17-2023, 09:48 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
By universal melee attack, I meant whatever attack you were using to model the fists, wands, and staffs. But I was also misreading the question entirely.
You want to be able to cause afflictions at melee range, carried on an indeterminate melee attack. If the melee attack misses or is defended against, the affliction doesn't go off. If the attacker hits bare skin (DR 0), then DR doesn't help resist the affliction, but otherwise it does. I'm unclear if the melee damage counts when the affliction hits armor but I'm assuming not. In that case, you're looking at: Affliction (Linked to Melee attack +20%; Melee Only Cannot Parry Reach C,1,2 -20%, Destructive Parry* +10%) [11] For a basic stun affliction that is linked to some other melee attack (fist, baton, staff, whatever) and affects the weapon or limb that parries it. Add additional modifiers to customize as needed: takes extra time, costs FP, whatever other conditions you want to inflict, etc. * Destructive parry is from Power p 103 and means anything used to parry is damaged by the effect. Since stunning an inanimate object has no meaningful effect, this essentially means only unarmed parries are subjected to the destructive parry.
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03-21-2023, 12:31 PM | #5 |
Join Date: May 2021
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
OK, thanks once again for your suggestions.
After weighing everything, doing some more googling I found that I had missed out on Thaumatology: Sorcery so I went and got that. After reading it I think it covers most of what I'm trying to do. I'll try some tweaking and come back to post results for other with similar questions. Cheers |
03-24-2023, 01:42 PM | #6 |
Join Date: May 2021
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
Just to make sure my understanding of T:SOR is correct and I'm on the right track with my spell creation I would like to post and receive feedback on one of the spell builds:
I'm using Quintessence QN and power spells with QP instead of FP. Also I decided to add a QN roll to activate any Spell except those that already have a roll to activate, in which case it's moved to QN as well. Resistance is also on QN. Ignore that for the moment if it adds confusion. Keyword: Buff, Leveled Full Cost: 70 Casting Roll: QN Range: Touch Duration: Indefinite Statistics: Affliction 1 (Based on QN [+20%], Based on QN Own Roll[+20%], Costs Fatigue* 1 [-5%], Melee Attack Reach C, No Parry [-35%], Gives Advantage 'Altered Time Rate' [+450%], Gives Advantage 'Increased Basic Speed' [+150%]) Altered Time Rate 1 (Magical [-10%], Costs Fatigue 1, has Maintenance [-10%], Reduced Duration, 1/60 [-35%]) [45] Increased Basic Speed (Magical [-10%], margin-based [x3]) [14] * this should really be "Cost Quintessence Points 1" but priced the same I guess. Here are my Questions and the thinking behind the design. Questions:
Cheers [Edit] Sorry for the long post P.S.: are there no smileys here? (;_;) Last edited by Nedorus; 03-24-2023 at 01:47 PM. |
03-24-2023, 02:28 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
Partial answers to some of your questions:
1. See Body of Wood (T:SOR p 23) for a canonical buff spell that uses a single affliction is give the target a meta-trait made of advantages and disadvantages. 2. I think so. 3. See "Alternate rituals" on T:SOR p 7. 4. Sorcery buffs have Fixed Duration and last for their specified duration and can neither be maintained nor dispelled early (T:SOR p 8). 5. Even on an indefinite duration spell, you can't drop parts of the Affliction early (unless the spell has Selective Area, arguably) and even if you could, you get no discount on the FP cost of the maintenance. 6. There's no roll to hit a friendly target with a melee range buff, but no one can be buffed against their will and friendly and willing targets still are forced to resist the buff, with their armor bonus, if the spell doesn't target their unarmored body parts. 7? 8. The caster chooses to maintain buffs, not the target. If the buff has an indefinite duration and can be maintained, anyway. 9. I don't think the target can choose not to end the buff early and must pay any FP costs until the spell ends. Anyone can choose to not be affected by a buff at casting time but after that, it's out of their control. 10. Margin based triples the cost of enhancement modifier on the affliction. So Affliction (Extra HT +1 +100%) costs 20 CP, while Affliction (Extra HT +1 Margin Based +300%) costs 40 FP. So: Affliction (Better Basic Speed Margin Based +570%) where Better Basic Speed is Basic Speed +1.00 (Magical -10%) [19].
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03-25-2023, 03:21 AM | #8 | |||||
Join Date: May 2021
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
Thanks one again for your support. It's greatly appreiated.
Yes, I understand that. Also p. 5 states: Quote:
Quote:
While typing up and researching the question how I arrive at the "duration" (Indefinite, Fixed, Instantaneous, Permanent, Truly Permanent) I learned this: Quote:
So basically if it's an affliction carrying a such an advantage then I have to add "fixed duration" and "reduced duration 1/3" on it if I want to make is Duration: Indefinite (maintainable). Otherwise it's just a variable length "fixed duration" spell which depends on the margin of success. I'm not sure how to handle "always on" advantages in this case... Duration: Permanent I guess? I think now I see the light at the end of the "how to set duration"-tunnel... Basically i take the duration of the underlying ability (affliction, afflicted or other) and its special rules and can derive which duration I end up with. If I don't like what I end up with, I CAN add time-modifiers to the underlying ability to change this in any direction. Feels right... Quote:
Quote:
Thanks always for the support! |
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03-25-2023, 04:28 AM | #9 | |||
Join Date: May 2021
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
[EDIT]I'm putting this into another thread to make things more relevant for others.
OK, maybe I haven't understood it yet (> _ <) I was just reading Complex Illusion (T:SOR18). It's based on Powers Illusion which states: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How does the author arrive at Duration: Indefinite? How is is not permanent Duration: Permanent? Or maybe Duration: Permanent until Caster dies? Last edited by Nedorus; 03-25-2023 at 05:58 AM. Reason: I'm putting this into another thread to make things more relevant for others. |
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03-25-2023, 05:09 PM | #10 | ||||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: How to implement Melee Attack + QN Roll Affliction
Quote:
Quote:
If you have an "always on" self-buff such as Damage Resistance, you just have it until you use a different Alternate Ability, unless it has Costs FP, in which case you have it until you run out of FP or use a different Alternate Ability. See Locksmith on T:SOR p 22 for an example. Quote:
Quote:
In Sorcery, Complex Illusion has an FP cost, so it's a maintained spell with an indefinite duration that costs 1 FP per minute. And that's because it's an always-on advantage that has been modified with Costs FP, and you need to repay the FP every minute.
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