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Old 08-24-2020, 06:12 PM   #1
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Flaming weapon questions

One of the PCs in my DFRPG/Nordlond group has a flaming knife. Using it has created a number of questions over time. I'm curious how others would handle these minor issues:
  1. Does the weapon burst into flame as soon as it is drawn? Does it take a Concentrate maneuver? Can the wielder turn it off?
  2. If the caster throws it or drops it, does it remain flaming for another minute (like the spell's duration) and then go out? Does the former wielder have any control over this once it has left their hand?
  3. How does the fire interact with water? Can you wield it in the rain? Under water? Can you stick a flaming knife into your mug to heat water for tea?
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Old 08-25-2020, 05:16 AM   #2
InexplicableVic
 
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

These are some interesting questions, and are not really answered anywhere in the text of Spells or Magic Items (or, as best I can tell, in any previous GURPS rulebooks, although I certainly have not searched them all). Without looking at any other sources, I would say that much of these are up to the individual GM. But I think we can look at Magic (GURPS) for some idea of what the designers may have intended.

Under the spell Flaming Weapon, it explains that one can create a permanent magic item, namely, "a weapon that flames whenever used at no energy cost to the user." Magic, p. 75. Presumably, so long as it is being used, it would continue for a minute. If still being used after a minute, the spell automatically maintains itself, and so on. In light of those assumptions, I would probably rule, as a GM, that:

1. The weapon bursts into flame as soon as it is drawn, because that would count as "being used." I do not think it takes a Concentrate maneuver, because the act of using it is what activates it. I do not think it can be turned off by way of the description of the item. If a GM were to allow it to be turned off, he or she would need to determine if that takes a Concentrate maneuver or if it is a free action. Arguably canceling it would be a free action (Exploits, p. 29) without any energy cost, but if it can be turned off, it would probably require a Concentrate maneuver to activate it again.

2. I think it remains flaming for a minute, and then it is no longer "being used." If it can be turned off, I would think it needs to be in the user's hands, not 10 yards away. So I would probably rule that the user has no control over it.

3. In the campaign I run, I would say: (a) you can wield it in the rain; (b) you cannot wield it underwater--total immersion prevents the flame; and (c) while heat is a byproduct of the spell, it is not the equivalent of the heat spell--this just produces flame--so you cannot use it to heat tea, because the flame is quenched.

I'd be curious to see how others view this.

Last edited by InexplicableVic; 08-25-2020 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:03 AM   #3
Anders
 
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
One of the PCs in my DFRPG/Nordlond group has a flaming knife. Using it has created a number of questions over time. I'm curious how others would handle these minor issues:
  1. Does the weapon burst into flame as soon as it is drawn? Does it take a Concentrate maneuver? Can the wielder turn it off?
  2. If the caster throws it or drops it, does it remain flaming for another minute (like the spell's duration) and then go out? Does the former wielder have any control over this once it has left their hand?
  3. How does the fire interact with water? Can you wield it in the rain? Under water? Can you stick a flaming knife into your mug to heat water for tea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan506 View Post
1. The weapon bursts into flame as soon as it is drawn, because that would count as "being used." I do not think it takes a Concentrate maneuver, because the act of using it is what activates it. I do not think it can be turned off by way of the description of the item. If a GM were to allow it to be turned off, he or she would need to determine if that takes a Concentrate maneuver or if it is a free action. Arguably canceling it would be a free action (Exploits, p. 29) without any energy cost, but if it can be turned off, it would probably require a Concentrate maneuver to activate it again.
Ayup.

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Originally Posted by Spartan506 View Post
2. I think it remains flaming for a minute, and then it is no longer "being used." If it can be turned off, I would think it needs to be in the user's hands, not 10 yards away. So I would probably rule that the user has no control over it.
Ayup.

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Originally Posted by Spartan506 View Post
3. In the campaign I run, I would say: (a) you can wield it in the rain; (b) you cannot wield it underwater--total immersion prevents the flame; and (c) while heat is a byproduct of the spell, it is not the equivalent of the heat spell--this just produces flame--so you cannot use it to heat tea, because the flame is quenched.
You could heat the tea by holding the flaming sword under the cup, it would work as holding a firebrand there. You'll likely burn your fingers, though.
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Old 08-25-2020, 02:19 PM   #4
Dalin
 
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

Thanks for your thoughts! This is definitely GM-call territory, but I always like to hear how other people handle things.

I've ruled similarly for the first and second points. I think I will allow it to be turned off as a free action. This has come up if the weilder wants to sneak up on an enemy in darkness and wants to have the knife out without the flames. (One could imagine other environments where light and/or flame would be sub-optimal... knife fight in a flour mill?)

When the character in my game jumped in the water, I said that the knife burbled and bubbled, but couldn't really burst into flame unless it was out of the water. But it was generating heat. In retrospect, it would have been simpler to just have it go out.
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Old 08-25-2020, 03:07 PM   #5
Black Leviathan
 
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

I would assume "Used" indicates held by the hilt, ready to strike. If you sheath the weapon, set it on table, drop it, or in some other way stop being ready to attack with it then the weapon goes out until you "use" it once more.
The spell doesn't describe the flames as being vulnerable to rain or even being submerged, but the DR you'd gain from fire attacks from being under water would be much higher than the damage from the spell. Heating your tea is a curious one. 2pts of damage isn't a ton of energy. I don't know that it would heat water very fast, but if you want to stand there with your dagger stabbed into a mug of tea long enough it will boil.
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

I wield a flaming knife in a GURPS campaign (not DFRPG), and the GM has ruled that the flames only appear when I attack with the blade.
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Old 08-27-2020, 05:59 AM   #7
Anders
 
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

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Originally Posted by Black Leviathan View Post
I Heating your tea is a curious one. 2pts of damage isn't a ton of energy. I don't know that it would heat water very fast, but if you want to stand there with your dagger stabbed into a mug of tea long enough it will boil.
An ordinary fire does 1d-1 burn damage, which is 2.5 points so it's equivalent of a small campfire. So one minute should be enough time.
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
One of the PCs in my DFRPG/Nordlond group has a flaming knife. Using it has created a number of questions over time. I'm curious how others would handle these minor issues:
  1. Does the weapon burst into flame as soon as it is drawn? Does it take a Concentrate maneuver? Can the wielder turn it off?
  2. If the caster throws it or drops it, does it remain flaming for another minute (like the spell's duration) and then go out? Does the former wielder have any control over this once it has left their hand?
  3. How does the fire interact with water? Can you wield it in the rain? Under water? Can you stick a flaming knife into your mug to heat water for tea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan506 View Post
1. The weapon bursts into flame as soon as it is drawn, because that would count as "being used." I do not think it takes a Concentrate maneuver, because the act of using it is what activates it.
I agree.

Quote:
2. I think it remains flaming for a minute, and then it is no longer "being used."
I've always believed it activates on use, it stops when not in use: dropped or disarmed, ect... Otherwise, how does one sheath it?

Quote:
3. In the campaign I run, I would say: (a) you can wield it in the rain; (b) you cannot wield it underwater--total immersion prevents the flame; and (c) while heat is a byproduct of the spell, it is not the equivalent of the heat spell--this just produces flame--so you cannot use it to heat tea, because the flame is quenched.
I agree, this makes sense to me.
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Old 08-27-2020, 03:27 PM   #9
Dalin
 
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

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Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
I've always believed it activates on use, it stops when not in use: dropped or disarmed, ect... Otherwise, how does one sheath it
This is interesting. Would intent matter at all? Could you, for example, choose to use it to whittle some wood without having it burst into flame? Could a thief put it between their teeth while climbing a rope?
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Old 08-28-2020, 05:01 AM   #10
ArchonShiva
 
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Default Re: Flaming weapon questions

I think whittling and sneaking should be possible, but depending how you handle knowledge of magic items, it might not be obvious. Thaumatology rolls to answer theoretical questions and maybe Will/Meditation rolls to make it not flame when you want. Roll again if stressed (fright check, wound, etc.)

But I would not make trouble for a PC simply using as intended.
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