New Reality Seeds

[Apollonian]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Wait, there have been nuclear bombs around for 15 years, in the hands of a power itching to build an empire, in a world with no real experience with Total War, and they *haven't* had a nuclear war yet? Where are the mind controllers?

One of many questions Infinity and Centrum are asking.

Also, this world is very low on reliable delivery vehicles yet. Options being explored are ships (i.e., harbor bombs), giant guns, and zeppelins; heavier-than-air craft and rockets capable of carrying the large devices they've developed are still mostly theoretical.

[Astromancer]

Basically the heroes of the DCU show up in the 1830's. As in the standard DCU they are overwhelmingly in the North or California. That means that as the ACW starts up the North has the JLA and the JSA, among others, on call. Jefferson Davis seeks other allies.

Basically the North has the silver age DCU heroes (and any Marvel Heroes you love to much to leave out) and the South has the Silver age villains.

Note: for fun you could look at comics from outside of the USA and send those heroes or villains into they fight. Given that Diabolik's politics always tended to be fashionable, Louis Napoleon might easily hire him to kill Lincoln and any Union heroes. Britain saw the North as hypocritical and favored Southern independence to increase British imperial influence in the Americas. The Crown might send Marvelman or Steed and Peel to keep the North in line.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Basically the heroes of the DCU show up in the 1830's. As in the standard DCU they are overwhelmingly in the North or California. That means that as the ACW starts up the North has the JLA and the JSA, among others, on call. Jefferson Davis seeks other allies.

Basically the North has the silver age DCU heroes (and any Marvel Heroes you love to much to leave out) and the South has the Silver age villains.

Note: for fun you could look at comics from outside of the USA and send those heroes or villains into they fight. Given that Diabolik's politics always tended to be fashionable, Louis Napoleon might easily hire him to kill Lincoln and any Union heroes. Britain saw the North as hypocritical and favored Southern independence to increase British imperial influence in the Americas. The Crown might send Marvelman or Steed and Peel to keep the North in line.

Note that only a few people in the British government favored the South enough to consider helping them - the UK was very anti-slavery, and actively helping the South would be political suicide if you aren't changing that. Covertly helping is more plausible, though one would very much need to avoid being caught.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Note that only a few people in the British government favored the South enough to consider helping them - the UK was very anti-slavery, and actively helping the South would be political suicide if you aren't changing that. Covertly helping is more plausible, though one would very much need to avoid being caught.

A valid point, outside of southern England. London and its intelligentsia strongly favored the South in the ACW. Marx was about the only prominent intellectual that openly supported the Union. Antislavery politics were still strong but in London imperialism was stronger. The rest of the UK favored the Union. In Ireland this was total. Agents of the CSA declared Ireland a no go zone ( the fact that Scarlett O'Hara is Irish is an early 20th century form of the same impulse that makes present day NeoConfederates talk about black snipers fighting for the CSA). In the rest of the UK the high elites favored the South and the masses were pro Union. Only London and the southeast had solid majorities for support of the CSA.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Apollonian

Until about ten years ago, Kaiser-17 was a typical and rather boring echo of Homeline on Q6; the late 19th century was in full swing, the European diplomatic system was building up tensions toward WWI, colonialism was in full force, and so on. That may be why no on in Interworld Service or the Infinity Patrol noticed the problem... until the German Empire conducted its first nuclear bomb test in Africa in 1899. Frantic investigations followed; outtime interference was certain, but who? That question remains unanswered. The British Empire "developed" its own atomic weapons suspiciously quickly, conducting a test detonation in the Indian desert in 1901. France and Russia soon followed suit in 1907, with the United States a latecomer, testing a bomb in 1910.

Now, in 1914, the world is in a remarkable position. Whoever gave the Germans - and probably the other great powers - the bomb has also given them subsidiary technologies. The timeline is crashing toward TL7 at a breakneck pace, as the great powers strive to develop new and better delivery systems for their wonder weapons. World tensions are even more high strung, with each nation sure that it has the right and power to impose its will upon the world. And this timeline has not seen the horror of total war, nor has it seen the full power of an atomic bomb upon a city.

Meanwhile, the timeline remains a serious trouble spot for both Infinity and Centrum, each of whom is half-certain that the other side supplied the locals with technology, but not certain enough to act on that intel. And if it wasn't one of the big two, who was it? And in what other timelines might they be acting?

This sounds like the sort of the thing one of the nations of Paradox-1 (or one of its echoes) might do or some rogue faction on either Homeline or Centrum (after some Centrum did nuke London on an echo in its 1902 and in anything like our world you know that there have to be some Black Ops parachronic projectors around that Infinity doesn't know about)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Apollonian

Until about ten years ago, Kaiser-17 was a typical and rather boring echo of Homeline on Q6; the late 19th century was in full swing, the European diplomatic system was building up tensions toward WWI, colonialism was in full force, and so on. That may be why no on in Interworld Service or the Infinity Patrol noticed the problem... until the German Empire conducted its first nuclear bomb test in Africa in 1899. Frantic investigations followed; outtime interference was certain, but who? That question remains unanswered. The British Empire "developed" its own atomic weapons suspiciously quickly, conducting a test detonation in the Indian desert in 1901. France and Russia soon followed suit in 1907, with the United States a latecomer, testing a bomb in 1910.

Now, in 1914, the world is in a remarkable position. Whoever gave the Germans - and probably the other great powers - the bomb has also given them subsidiary technologies. The timeline is crashing toward TL7 at a breakneck pace, as the great powers strive to develop new and better delivery systems for their wonder weapons. World tensions are even more high strung, with each nation sure that it has the right and power to impose its will upon the world. And this timeline has not seen the horror of total war, nor has it seen the full power of an atomic bomb upon a city.

Meanwhile, the timeline remains a serious trouble spot for both Infinity and Centrum, each of whom is half-certain that the other side supplied the locals with technology, but not certain enough to act on that intel. And if it wasn't one of the big two, who was it? And in what other timelines might they be acting?

Echos like that are the places Homeline spends the most effort spying on because they are where the "war" with Centrum is actually fought. So such an intervention is unlikely to slip under the radar. If Centrum and Homeline were already there and caught off guard I'd venture to guess "reality quake". Although there is a certain appeal to a cross time agency whose purpose is just to manipulate all technologically and magically advanced cultures into destroying themselves.

[PTTG]

Makes sense, if they come from a mid-century cosmologist point of view. They may believe that all outtime cultures change and may eventually become a risk -- even if they started as colonies from their own worldline. If the believe that there is a way to instantly destroy someone else, they may decide that the only way to survive is to pre-emptively destroy everything else.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Makes sense, if they come from a mid-century cosmologist point of view. They may believe that all outtime cultures change and may eventually become a risk -- even if they started as colonies from their own worldline. If the believe that there is a way to instantly destroy someone else, they may decide that the only way to survive is to pre-emptively destroy everything else.

The main flaw with this is you don't know if there is someone more powerful out there who sees your actions and decides that taking you out is a good idea. Or worse several more powerful then you civilizations see this and figure 'ok, there is a mad dog out there. Time to take them down.'

[Chuckg]

Originally Posted by maximara

The main flaw with this is you don't know if there is someone more powerful out there who sees your actions and decides that taking you out is a good idea. Or worse several more powerful then you civilizations see this and figure 'ok, there is a mad dog out there. Time to take them down.'

Indeed, the problem with declaring war on the entire omniverse is the nigh-infinity-to-one-against odds that you ain't the biggest and baddest universe in the entire omniverse. And that's just 'as matched against any one of them', let alone being alone big and bad enough to handle multiple universes you've affronted.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Chuckg

Indeed, the problem with declaring war on the entire omniverse is the nigh-infinity-to-one-against odds that you ain't the biggest and baddest universe in the entire omniverse. And that's just 'as matched against any one of them', let alone being alone big and bad enough to handle multiple universes you've affronted.

Well, these people don't see peaceful coexistence as on option. The timing on the wars may be negotiable, but deep down you know its you or them, and you should only play nice long enough for them to turn their back so you can stab it.