09-26-2020, 09:23 AM | #5091 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: New Reality Seeds
That completely overturns the basis of the structure of Congress, and deprives the small New England states of much of their power in the Senate. Some explanation of how it was done seems necessary.
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09-26-2020, 10:26 AM | #5092 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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Incidentally you do know that at this point Senators (and some Electors) were appointed by their state legislatures right? This isn't a change that does a lot during *elections*. From 1850 until the 17th Ammendment (1913) there were usually several Senate seats that were unfilled because of deadlocks in the state legislatures, so expecting this to help....
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09-26-2020, 11:35 AM | #5093 | |
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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09-26-2020, 11:45 AM | #5094 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: New Reality Seeds
The increase in the number of Senators would probably make it less likely for there to be the stalements in the legislature for Senate selection. Since there would be a lot more Senators. In 1911, the number of Representatives were 435, meaning that the number of Senators would be 870, meaning that each Senator would be much less individually important, making their individual selection make less politically fractious. With 1305 electors more evenly distributed by population, it is also highly unlikely that a Presidential election goes against the popular will, so the two major parties would each need to be more progressive.
While Republicans and Democrats would be likely still be identified as 'liberal' and 'conservative', the influence of Southern conservatives after Reconstruction would be much weaker. With the migration of African Americans populations to the Midwest and North after Reconstruction giving Midwestern and Northern states more political power, the South and the West would need to embrace emigration to make up the difference. In addition, the two Indian states would likely end up drawing in the majority of the Native American population of the USA (even those who are half, quarter, and eighth would likely be welcome), and they would prove to be an important wildcard in national politics. While there would be white supremacists during the 20th century, their political power would have been muted due to the realities of political power after the 16th Amendment. Internal African American migration, and immigration from Asia, Europe, and Latin American, would bring a greater proportion of political power, so laws that attempted to restrict immigration would likely fail to pass Congress. Individual states might have racist policies but, since they could not constitutionally prevent non-Whites from moving, they would end losing out politically in the long run, as the reapportionment of the House of Representatives after the Census would end up reducing their number of Representatives, Senators, and Electors. Smaller states, like Delaware and Rhode Island, would also likely attempt to evolve into city-states, as large urban areas would bring political power. Providence might grow to challenge Boston for dominance in the Northeast while Dover might grow to act as a counter to Philadelphia. New York City would end up being an electoral jem though, as it would have 9 Representatives, 18 Senators, and 27 Electors. |
09-26-2020, 12:57 PM | #5095 | |
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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-- I really don't think the revised senate would accomplish what's necessary. The ten most populous states would be sufficient to secure a majority in the senate, house and college. Given that the Senate would still be pseudo-statewide (appointed by legislature) and the presidency would also be statewide, governing with very weak approval would be trivial. |
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09-26-2020, 01:11 PM | #5096 |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Re: New Reality Seeds
The change in nature to the Senate in Hamlin-3 means there is no functional difference between the House and Senate, they can be treated as a single body for all purposes. What you will in all likelihood see is a far more brutal and reactionary US government, and as time goes on a functional oligarchy of the 5 largest cities far worse than what we already experience.
So basically multiple civil wars over the next century that end the USA, either by actually breaking it up or grinding it down into a failed state.
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09-26-2020, 01:39 PM | #5097 | |
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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09-26-2020, 02:03 PM | #5098 | |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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09-26-2020, 02:17 PM | #5099 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: New Reality Seeds
New York City has never been the majority of the majority of the population of New York, and, until the 1920s, the rural population of the USA had always outnumber the urban population, so if NYC cannot completely control NY politics, I doubt that any other major city would have much luck. In addition, suburbs are usually fiercely independent of the central cities, so they would act as an important counterweight, especially as previously established populations would move out of the cities as new immigrants came into the cities if they were allowed to do so. You would end up with a much more diverse USA though, as Asian immigration would have likely not been restricted during the first half of the 20th century, and the Southern states would have likely become a Mecca for European immigration after WW I, especially since the USA may have stayed neutral without Wilson.
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09-26-2020, 02:42 PM | #5100 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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Also concentrating power tends to create internal stresses in any nation and turning the Senate onto the House 2.0 woudl essentially tell all smaller states "you don't matter." and when there is the inevitable push back, the larger states will react probably with violence. This would also apply to getting rid of the electoral college as well. The easiest way to understand this is to imagine your preferred ideology being locked out of power. This tends to rapidly erode the legitimacy of the State The reason making the Senate an elected vs appointed body did not as it did not really change the balance of power all that much or at least to a dangerous degree, |
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