Gate Gem

[Senturian]

Hey, how bad can being married to a Prootwaddle be anyway?
Maybe she can teach their kids not to put their hands on the hot stovetop.

[hcobb]

Lesser Demon Gem can evac two humans or three goblins per hop for instant escapes. So that's at least 10 humans pulled out of the deepest dungeon.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Lesser Demon Gem can evac two humans or three goblins per hop for instant escapes. So that's at least 10 humans pulled out of the deepest dungeon.

Perhaps you know something I can't seem to spot in the rules. I don't get why you are breaking down the "rescue teleportation" into multiple small hops to get to 10. And wouldn't teleporting two figures, then hopping back to teleport three more, etc, count as more than the one service allowed?

Also it could be added the RAW do not expressly state (nor forbid) a Lesser Demon teleporting a party of any size, citing only an example of a Greater Demon teleporting a party of up to 10.

It is unfortunate the RAW as they cover all demons are scattered across ITL in at least 4 places (5 counting their mention under Wishes), and further unfortunate the word "similar" is used at least twice in comparing the Lesser and Greater varieties.

So whether or not a Lesser Demon can teleport other figures at all, or as many as a Greater Demon can, may fall under GM discretion. Or maybe not. If a summoned Lesser Demon is identical to the Lesser Demon released from a Bound Demon gem, the answer would have to be yes. But we already know they can't be quite identical, as the Lesser Demon liberated from a gem is not allowed to grant a Lesser Wish, whereas the summoned version of the same demon can.

What may be telling is SJ's choice of language, from ITL 162 under Bound Demon gems, where he writes "The [lesser] demon will perform one service for its rescuer, as described under the Summon Demon spell". The noteworthy bit here is that he didn't say as described under the Summon Lesser Demon spell. Taken literally, that means the services a Lesser Demon can perform are identical to those of a Greater Demon, with the exceptions about wishes all noted separately. Would that he had named the Summon Demon spell Summon Greater Demon instead, to more explicitly differentiate that spell from the one named Summon Lesser Demon.

But in accepting that last interpretation, then a Lesser Demon can indeed teleport a party of 10 in one go just like a Greater Demon. You can't reach that conclusion though from only reading the two summoning spells, you have to take into account the language under Bound Demon gem item on page 162.

Also along the same lines, the Lesser Demon summoning spell results in a demon that does 2d6 damage in "HTH" combat, whereas the Greater Demon summoning spell results in a demon that does 4d6 damage in "bare-handed" combat. Begging the question, does the Lesser Demon do less than 2d6 when it throws a punch outside of HTH? Again, the clarifying entry falls under Bound Demon, where it states the Lesser Demon actually does 2d6 damage in bare-handed combat. The "HTH" in the lesser summoning spell was clearly meant to say "bare-handed", not "HTH".

[hcobb]

The Teleport spell (the basis of the ability) only teleports the subject themself. This presumably includes all that they are carrying, and a lesser demon can pick up 750 pounds of folk at a time. (Double at least for a greater demon, more if you use the multiply by size fix for encumbrance.)

So hex size multiplication fix greater demon can lift (for a few minutes, but he won't stick around more than a minute) 15*100*3 = 4500 pounds, which is ample to take a party of ten on a single hop.

In that case the lesser demon only gets the 750 pounds which is four humans with only 150 pounds of clothing and gear between them.

The reason that the demon doesn't go back is that the wizard hasn't memorized the exact location of the dungeon in the same way she's spent years familiarizing herself with the safe house.

[tomc]

Originally Posted by hcobb

The Teleport spell (the basis of the ability) only teleports the subject themself. This presumably includes all that they are carrying, and a lesser demon can pick up 750 pounds of folk at a time.

Unless you failed your roll, and the demon doesn't let on until you're all together in his arms. Then the group hug becomes a group squeeeeeeze before the lights go out....

[Steve Plambeck]

Still, there's nothing I see that says a demon, any demon, only teleports one figure at a time, or a specified mass per teleportation. Sure, you can infer a mass limit based on the 10 person limit, but that's only an inference. Simplest there might be to assume 10 means 10 one-hex figures, so assume any multi-hex figures count for the same number of one-hexers. Then for example, a party consisting of one 4-hex dragon, one 3-hex giant, one 2-hex centaur, and one 1-hex human could all be teleported by the demon, but if there was a second human then the total would become 11, leaving at least one figure out of luck and staying behind :)

Deciding to tie the teleportation limit to the ST of the demon sounds fair enough, but that would certainly be a house rule. Because ITL 162 says the Lesser Demon can offer the same service as the demon you get when using the Summon Demon spell, and that means the same services as a Greater Demon -- no conditions are placed on that other than the Wish restrictions.

[hcobb]

The conditions are on the Teleport ability, which if removed could just be teleport all those guys there off into a volcano. As Teleport only brings your inventory (without the weigh limit of Flight), you're going to need my hex multiplication to encumbrance if you want even a greater demon to pick up a four hex dragon.

"Hey green and scaly, what'cha doing after the fight?"

[Steve Plambeck]

Demons. Don't. Cast. Spells.

[larsdangly]

Unless you think it would be awesome to have a range of demons who use spell-like powers...

(same goes for dragons)

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Unless you think it would be awesome to have a range of demons who use spell-like powers...

(same goes for dragons)

Indeed, and they could be fun/funny and quirky things. For a future scenario I've been thinking on, I've designed an NPC Lesser Demon who happens to create a match-stick any time he snaps his fingers. There is no explanation for this, it's just how this demon was born. He has no use for the things. When encountered by the party, this and his older twin will be playing poker, and using the matches as counters to keep track of who has won the most hands. They are hopelessly bored. They've been playing for a thousand years to kill the time, bound to the room guarding the entrance to a labyrinth below. The party can do something very useful for themselves with that mountain of matches later, if only they are smart enough to think of it.

It's just a bit of silliness. In fact both the demons will be totally silly characters I'd bring back for comic relief in future adventures.