06-29-2018, 12:03 PM | #31 |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: A different take on priests
Is this meant to be balanced for use with IQ + ((ST + DX) / 2) talent points? (Because that makes a massive difference (your example character Squatka would only have 1 talent point after the priest-4 talents, if limited to IQ).)
Also, are you thinking of the ITL EP progression, or SJ's new EP progression and 40-point limit, because that makes a big difference, too. |
06-29-2018, 12:18 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: A different take on priests
Hmm. I think this should be playtested either under "classic" rules that we all understand, or under the "new" rules (insofar as we know them) in order to be meaningful to the group here. The house rules you are using are not clear to all of us, nor would many of us care to use them.
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06-29-2018, 03:29 PM | #33 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Play test report
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* The talisman can be used for ranged attacks at either 1d+2 (2 shots per turn since adjDX 18) or 2d (1 shot per turn) and gets a 2d+2 melee attack with the same talisman (according to your linked write-up, contrary to the stats listed here which say 2d), which means he doesn't have to unready a bow/crossbow to fight someone up close, and it also doesn't say whether he could add a shield or not. SO, let's compare to a warrior trying to do that: ST 12 DX 15 (18 missile) IQ 9 MA 10 Sword Shield Crossbow Bow Missile Weapons (in original ITL, no talent points left for anything else) Very fine Broadword 2d +2 Longbow Crossbow (limited supply of arrow and quarrels) This is a 36 point warrior. He has the same attacks as the priest, but 4 less IQ and 4 more ST. He has to ready his weapons to switch between them. The only edge I see him having over the priest is that he can suffer 4 more points of injury. Of course, he might have to actually recover from injury by resting, while the priest can heal 7 points (which is as much as the priest can take without being dead, and he can heal an entire group for 7 each) with a healing ritual (although those are limited to a certain time of day). (The priest also seems to need no ammo for the talisman ranged attacks.) So he's about on par with the 36-point warrior, except he's also a high priest with a large number of other powerful abilities as well. Looks to me like he may be balanced to be as good as a 36-point warrior (better in some ways), as good as a 36-point wizard (better in some ways, except for the inconvenience of when the powers can be used), and better than a 36-point smart/talented physicker (except for the inconvenience of when the powers can be used). Last edited by Skarg; 06-29-2018 at 03:33 PM. |
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06-29-2018, 03:56 PM | #34 | |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: A different take on priests
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Right now, I'm focusing on how it even just feels to play a priest compared to playing a hero or a wizard AT ALL. I've been able to play three sessions, total. |
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06-29-2018, 06:11 PM | #35 | |||
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: Play test report
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Using 9 talent points is a bad comparison, they should have been compared with the same talent point basis. Given that, he should at least have Running and I suggest moving one point from DX to IQ and giving him Fencing. The valid points make me think of potentially replacing the Wither power. Squatka would have to spend talent points on a weapon, maybe a small bow. "As good as a 36-point wizard" is not a good point. The flexibility of a priest doesn't compare at all to the flexibility of a wizard inside or outside of combat. Squatka is clearly not in the same league as a wizard in combat, even if Wither is retained. One talisman power is always available and only one other power can be activated within the span of a few minutes. Get a priest to use their second power and now you know the extent of their capability for that combat. Also, that second power comes from a list of only 3. Wizards are just too versatile in combat, compared to priests. Outside of combat, he is supposed to be on-par with a wizard's magnitude of effects (i.e. ST per day). There's nothing wrong with that because in terms of freedom of choice, the constraints on ceremonies are severe. Let's not pretend and call those constraints merely an "inconvenience":
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06-29-2018, 09:47 PM | #36 |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Play test report
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06-29-2018, 11:54 PM | #37 | |||||
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Play test report
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It should probably be mentioned if/how a talisman can be used in HTH. Quote:
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06-30-2018, 03:08 AM | #38 | ||||||
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: Play test report
Thanks for your thoughts on this. After all of your comments, I agree that Wither is too powerful and needs to be changed or replaced, maybe I wasn't clear enough on that in my last post.
It seems like the (usually) unlimited use aspect of talisman powers shouldn't be used for direct attacks. An once-per-appointed-time attack might be possible though. With that in mind, I think I would just be bickering if I addressed all of the points about Wither attacks, so I'm not going to do that. Quote:
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I don't think demons really have to do with comparing combat effectiveness. If it's a demon battle, though, the priest will surely lose. A wizard and his apprentices do have to spend 20 ST to summon one but they can potentially summon more than one / day during the 14 days the priest is waiting to be able to summon only one. The buffs do make a difference in general combat and I'm fairly confident but still wondering about those. The buff ceremonies affect one person and let them activate a buff for a few minutes (i.e. one combat). They are roughly based on spells such as Aid and Blur and based on a rough ST between 7 and 12 (depending on priest level). My thoughts on what is reasonable for ST are in the designer's notes. I'm picking 6 turns as a reasonable length of time for a combat. Gotta pick some number that seems reasonable to me. Could be wrong though. Quote:
Last edited by zot; 06-30-2018 at 03:09 AM. Reason: fixing format |
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06-30-2018, 01:30 PM | #39 |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: A different take on priests
Skarg and JLV have both been super helpful with their feedback, spending a ton of time composing large documents with objections and questions.
I revised the talent costs to make Priest cost 5 (cost based on Chris Rice's 5-point wizard talent) and took out the physicker requirement (although physicker still helps with healing ceremonies). Healing ceremonies are no longer required (but physicker still helps). Talismans now interfere with spell casting -- a priest with a consecrated talisman must destroy it in order to cast spells. Talismans don't interfere with magic items, though, so a priest could get spell casting through an item. Also, they don't affect "natural magic" like a gargoyle's ability to fly. I'm revising or replacing Wither so that it's not equivalent to a weapon. I also changed the healing ceremony (and talisman power) to convert wounds to fatigue, like Rick Smith suggested for the Heal spell. I really like the idea that you need to rest after healing. |
06-30-2018, 02:31 PM | #40 |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: A different take on priests
Lastest Squatka based on recent rules version.
Squatka, Village Wise One ST 12 DX 13 (16 / 15) IQ 11 MA 10 Talents Acolyte (1) Priest (2) Theurgy 1 (2) Theurgy 2 (1) Theurgy 3 (1) More Ceremonies (8) First Aid (1) Missile Weapons (3) Thrown Weapons (2) Bow (2) Equipment Light Crossbow: 2 dice, once / turn Fine Elven chain: 3 hits -0 DX Talisman Powers Avert (always activated) Fierce Aura (activatable) Cosmic Healing (activatable) Ceremonies Consecrate Talisman Commune With Nature Ancestor's Healing Shape of the Beast Protection of the Spirits Blessing of the Spirits Divine Sustenance Summon Angry Nature Spirit Gift of the Bear Clan Purify ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? Last edited by zot; 07-01-2018 at 06:36 AM. Reason: cross linking the Theurge examples |
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