Crack the whip rules.

hcobb · 03-21-2020, 02:13 PM

About to do a PSA about the dangers of the whip rules. Anybody got decent replacements?

Flinger vs Lizard

larsdangly · 03-22-2020, 09:30 AM

I've never encountered a problem with whips having an unbalanced advantage. They certainly provide some special opportunities, but so do many other things. In any event, I have yet to see a character who seemed to benefit unfairly from one.

Skarg · 03-22-2020, 06:40 PM

To appreciate the problem, play a very experienced melee fighter character who survived years of battle and can defeat most foes. even groups of foes, in melee combat, then put him up against two opponents: a starting character with fairly high DX and a whip and/or lasso, and a starting character with ST 15 DX 9 pikeaxe. Have your foes move so that the whip can attack you before you can engage them, watch it knock you down as easily as if you were an unarmed ST 8 DX 8 figure with no talents facing the wrong direction. Then watch as the pikeaxe charges you while prone. You might survive long enough to be tripped and charged again.

larsdangly · 03-25-2020, 01:41 PM

I generally don't find 'white room' arguments compelling; it is just too easy to pitch them in such a way that important assumptions get skipped over quickly or go unstated. In the case of the 2 on 1 fight (something I'd say could be easy to win in lots of different strategies, but that's a different question...), the key point is that you assume the chump in the story ends up in exactly the wrong place: in reach of the whip, in charging distance of the pike axe but not engaged with either and not placed in such a way that one blocks the other's line of attack. That's just such a set up job that its hard to interpret it as a statement on the relative values of various 'builds'.

I'm a lot more convinced by real experiences involving play between combatants who are both trying to win.

03-21-2020, 02:13 PM	#1
hcobb Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pacheco, California	Crack the whip rules. About to do a PSA about the dangers of the whip rules. Anybody got decent replacements? Flinger vs Lizard __________________ -HJC Last edited by hcobb; 03-21-2020 at 03:53 PM.

03-22-2020, 09:30 AM	#2
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Crack the whip rules. I've never encountered a problem with whips having an unbalanced advantage. They certainly provide some special opportunities, but so do many other things. In any event, I have yet to see a character who seemed to benefit unfairly from one.

03-22-2020, 06:40 PM	#3
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Crack the whip rules. To appreciate the problem, play a very experienced melee fighter character who survived years of battle and can defeat most foes. even groups of foes, in melee combat, then put him up against two opponents: a starting character with fairly high DX and a whip and/or lasso, and a starting character with ST 15 DX 9 pikeaxe. Have your foes move so that the whip can attack you before you can engage them, watch it knock you down as easily as if you were an unarmed ST 8 DX 8 figure with no talents facing the wrong direction. Then watch as the pikeaxe charges you while prone. You might survive long enough to be tripped and charged again.

03-25-2020, 01:41 PM	#4
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Crack the whip rules. I generally don't find 'white room' arguments compelling; it is just too easy to pitch them in such a way that important assumptions get skipped over quickly or go unstated. In the case of the 2 on 1 fight (something I'd say could be easy to win in lots of different strategies, but that's a different question...), the key point is that you assume the chump in the story ends up in exactly the wrong place: in reach of the whip, in charging distance of the pike axe but not engaged with either and not placed in such a way that one blocks the other's line of attack. That's just such a set up job that its hard to interpret it as a statement on the relative values of various 'builds'. I'm a lot more convinced by real experiences involving play between combatants who are both trying to win.