Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > In Nomine

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-09-2009, 01:24 PM   #1
ladyarcana55
 
ladyarcana55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellflower, CA
Default Quick question on geases

Okay, two quick question on geases.

1) Would someone be able to get a geas on someone if the agreement is over the phone?

For instance, I'm on the phone with a Lilim and I ask for a favor from them. In return I will owe them a favor. Will she get a geas from that or does the agreement have to be face to face?

2) What kind of information can the Lilim get from a geas they hold over someone else?

For instance, using the same example, would she be able to find out any information I did not give her?

I know I am probably just complicating things but I am curious now.
ladyarcana55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 02:17 PM   #2
Rocket Man
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
Default Re: Quick question on geases

I'm away from my books, but I *think* only a Bright can get a Need over the phone ... demonic Lilim need to be face-to-face.
__________________
“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"
Rocket Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 03:04 PM   #3
Dalillama
 
Dalillama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Re: Quick question on geases

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
Okay, two quick question on geases.

1) Would someone be able to get a geas on someone if the agreement is over the phone?

For instance, I'm on the phone with a Lilim and I ask for a favor from them. In return I will owe them a favor. Will she get a geas from that or does the agreement have to be face to face?

2) What kind of information can the Lilim get from a geas they hold over someone else?

For instance, using the same example, would she be able to find out any information I did not give her?

I know I am probably just complicating things but I am curious now.
1) From what I can tell, the Canon anwer is no. Only a Bright can read Needs over the phone, and you only get a Geas hook if you've read their needs via Resonance. Personally, though I'd rule that if you tell her something you Need, then that would count for a Geas hook as well.

2) She will know if she's asking you too much when she calls in the favor. Other than that, none at all, although a Geas hook will allow her to track you w/ Celestial Affinity, if she knows that Song.
Dalillama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 03:07 PM   #4
ladyarcana55
 
ladyarcana55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellflower, CA
Default Re: Quick question on geases

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAlillama View Post
Only a Bright can read Needs over the phone...
Only a Bright? Why is that? Is that the special thing they have that sets them apart from other Lilim?
ladyarcana55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 03:24 PM   #5
Rocket Man
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
Default Re: Quick question on geases

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
Only a Bright? Why is that? Is that the special thing they have that sets them apart from other Lilim?
That's certainly a symptom of it. Bright Lilim can even use their resonance on a photograph if the subject's eyes are visible.

As for what sets them apart, it's the same thing that sets apart any angel from a demon: selflessness. Archangel Beth used this passage from Gurps In Nomine to explain some time ago:

Quote:
p. 140, Resonance Modifiers Table: "Using a divine, Perception-based resonance upon recorded media, such as a photo, will give information appropriate to when the recording was made. For example, an Elohite could sense the subject's emotional state at the time of the photo, but not his current emotions. (Dark Lilim are too selfish to open themselves to the Symphony enough to use recorded media; Bright Lilim can use their resonance upon a photograph if the target is looking into the camera, simulating 'eye contact.')"
The same rationale seems to apply to a phone call (correct me if I'm wrong, oh high priests of IN!) though it would be more useful since it's real time.

EDIT: AA Beth also included this passage in the same posting:

Quote:
First... the original core rules! p. 58 of the PDF (p. 57 as the page numbers go), below the Celestial Resonance Check Digit Modifers table: "Using a divine resonance on a mechanical reproduction (such as looking at a photo or talking to someone on the phone) will give information about the subject's state when the reproduction was made."
The only thing I'm not sure about is whether a phone call obviates the need for "virtual eye contact."
Hope this helps!
__________________
“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"

Last edited by Rocket Man; 09-09-2009 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Additional thought
Rocket Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 03:35 PM   #6
Acolyte
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Default Re: Quick question on geases

I'm with you, DA. It's always bothered me that Lilim need to invoke their resonance on extremely obvious or even stated Needs. A Lilim walking through the desert and coming upon a delirious man clutching up at her, croaking out the word "water" over and over, should be able to pour him a drink and get a huge Geas, random rolls completely aside.

This was somewhat ameliorated in the IPG, but you have to invoke the rez on a penalty, which also doesn't make sense.

On the subject of Lilim, here's an interesting question.

What is the Redemption rate of Free Lilim compared to Bound Lilim? Naturally it seems Free Lilim would Redeem more often...but then again, they're more heavily policed by Asmodeus. Bound Lilim have a Prince watching over them, and that Prince's Renegade retrieval team, and some benefits of station, so they might be less likely to go--but they're also faced with more annoying restrictions and missions to grate on their "Freedom"-inspired natures. Ho hum. Ho ho ho hum.
__________________
“The world is going to Hell in a hand-basket, but I’ve got Good News: I saved my soul by switching to Heaven.”
—Baruel, former Djinn of the Media, now Cherub of Destiny and the Angel of Good News
Acolyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 03:49 PM   #7
Dalillama
 
Dalillama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Re: Quick question on geases

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
Only a Bright? Why is that? Is that the special thing they have that sets them apart from other Lilim?
Bright Lilim are angels, and angelic resonances work through intermediaries. Arguably, dark lilim are the special case, since they have the only Perception based resonance that doesn't work over recorded/transmitted media, but since the Will-based Kyrio Resonance works over live (but not recorded, for obvious reasons) transmissions (per the APG), it seems to be an Angel/demon thing. Lilim also more limited than angels in that they must meet a victim's eyes, which angels don't, in general (and evidently Brights don't either, since they can use it over the phone). Of course,
Dalillama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 04:48 PM   #8
robkelk
Untitled
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
Default Re: Quick question on geases

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acolyte View Post
On the subject of Lilim, here's an interesting question.

What is the Redemption rate of Free Lilim compared to Bound Lilim? Naturally it seems Free Lilim would Redeem more often...but then again, they're more heavily policed by Asmodeus. Bound Lilim have a Prince watching over them, and that Prince's Renegade retrieval team, and some benefits of station, so they might be less likely to go--but they're also faced with more annoying restrictions and missions to grate on their "Freedom"-inspired natures. Ho hum. Ho ho ho hum.
I'm thinking that Free Lilim have a lower Redemption rate than Bound Lilim do. A Free who didn't take Lilith's Rites and Dissonance is the ultimate in free agents - no boss, no ties, nothing to give them grief. They may be free to starve, but they're free; even Creationers (their closest opposite-numbers) have temp-bosses to answer to.

That puts them in the perfect position to become solipsists (each of them is the only being that really matters) - that's the height of selfishness.

Asking a Free to put that aside is a mighty tall order, moreso than for other demons...
__________________
Rob Kelk
“Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.”
– Bernard Baruch,
Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950
No longer reading these forums regularly.
robkelk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 04:53 PM   #9
ladyarcana55
 
ladyarcana55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellflower, CA
Default Re: Quick question on geases

Quote:
Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
A Free who didn't take Lilith's Rites and Dissonance is the ultimate in free agents - no boss, no ties, nothing to give them grief.
How is that even possible, not to take Lilith's Rites and such? Also, they still have the geases they owe to her, right?
ladyarcana55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 07:25 AM   #10
JCD
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
Default Re: Quick question on geases

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
Okay, two quick question on geases.

1) Would someone be able to get a geas on someone if the agreement is over the phone?

For instance, I'm on the phone with a Lilim and I ask for a favor from them. In return I will owe them a favor. Will she get a geas from that or does the agreement have to be face to face?

2) What kind of information can the Lilim get from a geas they hold over someone else?

For instance, using the same example, would she be able to find out any information I did not give her?

I know I am probably just complicating things but I am curious now.

To be a bit more specific. From Superiors: Lilith:

Quote:
Anyone consciously able to expend Essence may, if he
wishes, promise a favor to a Lilim – specified or unspecified.
She need only exert her will (no roll required, just a round of
concentration, but the subject must not resist) and the Geas
will manifest.
Note the lack of mention of Needs, Gazes, Sunglasses, etc. I believe this means that I can swear a geas over the phone, both as a giver or as a recpient.

Now, using the table I posted above from Core Rules, one would be justified in specifying that one could not hook any geas stronger then a level 4 (from the -2 modifier to the check digit)


As to the second question...what is the cost and consequences of the information? Let us say that we had a random Lilim named Kaylen. She wanted to get some information from Alex the Lilim. The easiest metric is what would happen to Alex if her 'squealing' was detected. If her Prince would drop on her like a ton of bricks, then that suggests a far different cost then 'the police might ask you some questions.' The geas mechanics chart on Lilith page 38.

A harder metric is what is the information worth! If Lilith were to sell the true Identity of Janus and Valfor, it would be worth multiple geas/6. The use name of a Servitor of Theft would perhaps cost a geas/2. The TRUE name of a Calabim of Belial would be a geas/3 or more. So too would a password for an encrypted computer of high value.

YMMV
JCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
discord, geas

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.