At what point is a character dead, dead and can't be resurrected?

[Helborn]

ITL RAW does not seem to have any limit to the damage that can be healed if you have enough Healing Potions to pour down that character's throat.
GURPS kills you at -5xHP.
Any thoughts on limits in your games?
I had a player who's character (ST=11) went up against a pike-ax and the opponent not only rolled a 3 for the hit but 18 for the damage (5 hx charge attack). I ruled that 54 points of damage (60 minus 6 -Leather and Stone Flesh) did not leave enough whole to attempt pouring a Healing potion down.
The player argued that there was no limit. Thoughts?

[hcobb]

It is the GM's call as to how much damage crosses the threshold of

ITL 10: "... otherwise ruined body cannot be revived"

Here's my take on it: https://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#Death

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Helborn

ITL RAW does not seem to have any limit to the damage that can be healed if you have enough Healing Potions to pour down that character's throat.
GURPS kills you at -5xHP.
Any thoughts on limits in your games?
I had a player who's character (ST=11) went up against a pike-ax and the opponent not only rolled a 3 for the hit but 18 for the damage (5 hx charge attack). I ruled that 54 points of damage (60 minus 6 -Leather and Stone Flesh) did not leave enough whole to attempt pouring a Healing potion down.
The player argued that there was no limit. Thoughts?

To my point of view, allowing anyone to return to life after crossing the threshold—even by a single point—is a gift. Quibbling with a GM who has ruled that more than 50 points south of zero ST is beyond the point of no return is bad sportsmanship. Sometimes someone has to play Boromir. But I’d be inclined to let them have a final soliloquy if the player was so inclined, regardless of how badly damaged the character was.

[Rolando]

For such an attack you may say it was decapitated or cut in half, so pouring a potion is not possible, only divine intervention or some such.

Allowing that kind of players a soliloquy is risky, though, the player may instead argue that if the character can keep speaking then can drink a potion instead. Soliloquy are for players that accept their fate and want to have a few more seconds of ROLE playing.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Rolando

Soliloquy are for players that accept their fate and want to have a few more seconds of ROLE playing.

Exactly so. But you have to give them the chance to succeed at role playing. A dying soliloquy is a plum. Bittersweet, to be sure, but a plum nonetheless.

[FireHorse]

I use essentially the same rule as Henry Cobb cited: ST 0 is unconscious, ST below 0 (but higher than negative base ST) is dying unless something quickly intervenes, and negative base ST is totally Dead.

But moreover, multiples of base ST below 0 represent grievous mutilations: limbs lopped off, guts spilled out, etc.

In the example cited, ST 11 - 54 = ST -43. That's more than 3x negative base ST (just 1 point shy of 4x), which would mean that poor sod got thoroughly mangled, and was definitely really, really Dead. As Rolando suggested, I'd call that a decapitation — or maybe a skull split wide open — and probably a missing arm and a disembowelment too, just for good measure.

No healing would help that. No time for any soliloquy, either. Sorry man, you done got splattered.

[Skarg]

I'd say he's very very dead.

And, hopefully there were not 43 healing potions lying around?

And if there were, who's going to use 43 healing potions to try to revive someone? It's not like there's in-character knowledge of exactly how many healing potions would make the difference between saving one person's life, and just wasting thousands and thousands of silver worth of magic potions and having them die anyway. Not to mention losing 43 healing potions, which would otherwise be massively useful, if used judiciously.

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Originally Posted by FireHorse

I use essentially the same rule as Henry Cobb cited: ST 0 is unconscious, ST below 0 (but higher than negative base ST) is dying unless something quickly intervenes, and negative base ST is totally Dead.

But moreover, multiples of base ST below 0 represent grievous mutilations: limbs lopped off, guts spilled out, etc.

This looks good, to me.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Skarg

It's not like there's in-character knowledge of exactly how many healing potions would make the difference between saving one person's life...

Wizards know their own ST level to the point.
What is the IQ roll for a Physicker to triage the badly wounded?

Lastly, just bring along a goblin witch to cast Regeneration to stabilize the mangled.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Wizards know their own ST level to the point.

Except when they're dead or unconscious.

Originally Posted by hcobb

What is the IQ roll for a Physicker to triage the badly wounded?

I'd roleplay the triage, not make it one IQ roll. I'd give a 3/IQ roll to get a general sense how bad someone off is, and give better info to people who make their roll by more, and especially to those with Physicker and Master Physicker, but I'd pretty much never tell anyone who didn't roll a 3 the precise number of healing potions they need to use when the person is dead and the damage is very high (and on a bad failure, I might lie and tell someone they are certain they need an exact number that is fewer potions than they really need, so even if they roll a 3 (GM rolls), they don't really know for certain - still want to put 43 healing potions into Klem?).

Originally Posted by hcobb

Lastly, just bring along a goblin witch to cast Regeneration to stabilize the mangled.

Regeneration doesn't prevent people at negative ST from dying - it takes a week of rest to take effect. It also takes 30 ST to cast, so you might want to use your ST on winning battles and not getting Klem killed in the first place, instead.

Also too bad no one knows Regeneration in my campaign.