Our timeline gets parachronics in 2022

[Tom Mazanec]

What would happen if we invented conveyers and/or gates now? Postulate that, at least for a good while, we only have access to one world. It is TL 3 no mana. To make it more interesting, it's geography has no similarity to Earth except 30% land.
Three subcases:
A) population human, like 1400 here.
B) population both human and a few nonhumanoid species, like Out-Of-Placers.
C) population one or more nonhumanoid (don't know any examples off hand, but would appreciate any shoutouts).
Would we have grown up as a society, or would we treat the less advanced culture like humans just about always have? Would the three versions make any difference?

[Willy]

In short words, in the current situation of the world as it is now an geopolitical nightmare!

Just consider that this just means that nukes can be delivered with next to no chance to intercept them.

Or the that we have de facto now at least 3 different groups of power on this planet, all with different sights on human rights, capitalism / socialism, social standards etc.

Alone the question which of the power broker invents it first and is it common knowledge or a more likely close guarded secret.

Basically if we would discuss the plot here and all the possible diverging branches, we may tangle real politics, in heated times, closer than we should in a RPG thread.

I guess how we treat the natives, do we make contact with the natives, trade, colonization and all that would be even for democratic nations a complete secondary question compared to the military options given by conveyors.

It had a reason why SJG while opening the box of pandora, kept by GM fiat, the real trouble under control, by introducing the patrol and van Zandt.

[Tom Mazanec]

Guess society is too polarized to make this a viable discussion topic on this forum :-(
I would have liked to see a background developed without one inventor/entrepreneur getting the world's politicians to cede all the power to him (which alone makes Homeline a Weird Parallel imho).
If the moderators think this is too much a hot potato I will understand if they shut it down (although I will be disappointed).

[Anaraxes]

The lone genius is one way to avoid exactly the problem of choosing a favorite out of the real world choices. Narratively, it's also trying to avoid turning the game into a geopolitical contest. Some people may like that much politics in their game, some might prefer their adventures to be a little more disconnected from the headlines. (Tom Clancy vs Dan Brown, I suppose.)

You could have your genius inventor broadly publicize the invention. At least that way, everyone's got it. The adventurers will have no idea what sort of cross-world actors they're going to run into, which means the games are going to be a lot more chaotic. Again, maybe you think that'd be fun, or maybe you'd prefer a more focused opposition with a less fragmented and inconsistent personality. (SPECTRE or random terrorists / drug dealers?) The major powers will still be exploiting the invention and trying to turn it to their interest, but their activities won't be the only source of pushes and pulling the campaign.

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by Willy

In short words, in the current situation of the world as it is now an geopolitical nightmare!

Just consider that this just means that nukes can be delivered with next to no chance to intercept them.

Am I missing something? I always thought you needed a projector at the correct location to snatch a conveyor back (and B531 seems to back me up). Sure, there are ways to spoof that and replace your enemy's conveyor with a nuclear-warhead equipped one, but that can be sufficiently thwarted by just not having any projectors at high-value targets. Sure a projector is already such a target, but it's better than losing a chunk of New York or Moscow.

And if you want to build your own projector in your enemy's capital that would be quite the James Bond plot. No one can say it can't be done, it's just not bloody likely.

As for the original question interactions on a global scale are likely going to be ugly. Some folks will be taking the high road to show everybody how much more evolved they have become since the 19th century, but the majority won't.

A) A bonanza for social historians and art thieves, especially if it's a rather close parallel with the renaissance starting up and Gothic architecture being en vogue. Other than that it's going to be a long slog prospecting for natural resources.

B) If there are only a few non-humans, then this is probably more or less safe and the exobilogists will also be happy. Otherwise see C)

C) Someone will bring back full-scale slavery, especially if the non-humans are ugly, non-agricultural and/or in possession of useful abilities that cannot be easily reproduced.

All in all, I think it might actually alleviate global pressure for a time like in the first decade of the Scramble for Africa. Of course, that won't last, but it might mean an end to some wars, because great powers have better things to do. Some countries might abduct scientists though and there is certainly going to be some religions that will claim conveyors destroy your soul, the out-worlders are of the devil or need to be converted. The Vatican, of course, might also caution that the non-humans might not have fallen from grace and therefore we must be careful not to become their serpent in the Garden of Eden...

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

Am I missing something? I always thought you needed a projector at the correct location to snatch a conveyor back (and B531 seems to back me up). Sure, there are ways to spoof that and replace your enemy's conveyor with a nuclear-warhead equipped one, but that can be sufficiently thwarted by just not having any projectors at high-value targets. Sure a projector is already such a target, but it's better than losing a chunk of New York or Moscow. SNIP

As far as I know you don´t need a projektor for travelling inside a quantum. In fact if I read Infinite worlds P 28 under conveyors right. Any conveyor can jump to any point inside a quanta. They bill for a subquanta conveyor is peanuts compared to what some nations put into their military.

Even if a projektor is necessary, the payload for a conveyor to deliver a nuke is quite small, which reduces the necessary costs and size of the projector, again look what a modern warplane costs and you understand what I mean.

Since everyone who can built such a thing can calculate the right coordinates, we will have a constant all against all threat of a anytime no warning, not to defend against nuclear holocaust.

[Astromancer]

One thing is certain, the whole contact situation will fall under strict quarantines. Both worlds would be seen as in danger. At least if the inventor is American or Western.

Many other nations would tend to plunge in. I could see several of this world's less savory dictators hoping for a genocide. Empty lands with resources comparable to the Earth would be very attractive. In spite of many nations lecturing the USA on our past and present treatment of the Native Americans, many nations would joyfully do the same to the population of this parallel world if it brought riches. And they'd likely call anyone who objected a hypocrite.

If America had the Nexial Gate, even if we maintained strict quarantines and restricted all panchromatic travel to scientific research carried out under strict safety guidelines. We'd face worldwide protests and demands to turn over all technology and give outside authorities total control over the entire project.

Violence is a likely outcome.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec

What would happen if we invented conveyers and/or gates now?

There is no we. Everything, and I mean everything, depends on who develops the technology, who gets it from them, and it what order.

Imagine if the first conveyor is built by the US Airforce. Now imagine if it was built by the People's Liberation Army of China. Now imagine if its converged upon over five years by the western academic establishment. These all give different answers.

I think this is closest to what you want:

1. A researcher publishes a ground breaking paper laying the groundwork for the technology
2. Research programs all over the world investigate
3. A joint research initiative including the US Military and European Universities concludes that there is another world to reach
4. A treaty locking down the world for scientific use only is signed. a few prominent loopholes and/or conspicuous non-signatories are left.
5. A working conveyor is made. It dominates headlines for months. Very little actual data is returned by ultra-cautious scientists. Huge philosphical and Religious Debates rage over the internet.
6. Actual reports on the world finally come in. Demands are made by conservationists that the project be shut down, Later, groups will demand that severe human rights violations be adressed (its TL3, I don't think more than half the cultures they have is going to make human rights folks here happy, and I suspect it will be a lot less)
7. A handful of other teams will reach the world. One of them will be china.
8. A crisis of some sort will demand that the slow pace of research be abanndoned. This is probably an earth-native pathogen becoming a plague, but it could also be naked aggression by someone on earth, them figuring out something is up and being clear about wanted to talk to us, or something else.
9. In the initial deployment after the crisis, military zones will be declared. These will probably be less territorial claims and more declarations of protection. Powerful nations will want to patrol the area "adjacent" to their territory. Scrambles for areas adjacent to the suez, taiwan, and north korea will also occur. A lot of this will be in open ocean. A few nations will perform unexpectely well, and a lot will be embarassed.
10. Controversial Policies will try to balance keeping earth culture, diseases, and invasive species out while pressuring governments to stop things like human sacrifice, various flavors of slavery, and million-death famines. They will only partially succeed at any of those objectives, and will be reversed periodically by swings in political climate. Few boots will be on the ground. I don't expect that much real trade or mineral extraction will be allowed. Scientists will publish lots of papers based on a steady but small stream of missions.
11. A series of wars will break out on the world as they inevitably get their hands on disruptive technologies like the printing press and germ theory, and as their power structures collapse in the face of obviously superior technology.

Originally Posted by Willy

Just consider that this just means that nukes can be delivered with next to no chance to intercept them.

I mean, does that really change things in the grand scheme of things? we can't block them with 100% effectiveness right now. When only one additional world needs to be considered, its easier to defend as well.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Anaraxes and ercithered have already put what I wanted to say better than I probably would've, but my hot take is this ain't gonna be pretty.

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by Willy

As far as I know you don´t need a projektor for travelling inside a quantum. In fact if I read Infinite worlds P 28 under conveyors right. Any conveyor can jump to any point inside a quanta. They bill for a subquanta conveyor is peanuts compared to what some nations put into their military.

I stand corrected. You've changed the whole setting for me something fierce. Maybe it was the substandard German translation of Time Travel some 20 years ago that sent me down that road, but I always believed you needed a projector and that was one of the reasons getting bases on other worlds was extra important.

I guess you could put the world on another quantum, though, to dial down the real-world power politics and focus on the interactions with the other world.

Astromancer and ericthered also raise really good points. Hope this discussion keeps going into new directions, but I got nothing new, at the moment.