Magic Resistance vs Talimans

[Drone 5]

I need some clarification on a character with Magic Resistance using as Talisman.
I know, as per the rules, " alchemical charms – minor magical items that confer the effects of an alchemical elixir on a more lasting basis."
If it acts like an Elixir does that mean that those with Magic Resistance have to roll for effect like they do when trying to use an Elixir? It says this specifically for Elixirs in their description but not for Talismans.

[KataH]

That is a good question. It never came up in my games plus I never thought about it. I would be curious what others have to say.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Drone 5

I need some clarification on a character with Magic Resistance using as Talisman.
I know, as per the rules, " alchemical charms – minor magical items that confer the effects of an alchemical elixir on a more lasting basis."
If it acts like an Elixir does that mean that those with Magic Resistance have to roll for effect like they do when trying to use an Elixir? It says this specifically for Elixirs in their description but not for Talismans.

Since it acts like an elixir, it's reasonable to assume that it should be treated like one except where explicitly stated otherwise. Magic Resistance counts against elixirs, whether beneficial or harmful, so Talismans and Charms should likewise have to overcome the resistance of a character with MR.

[KataH]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Since it acts like an elixir, it's reasonable to assume that it should be treated like one except where explicitly stated otherwise. Magic Resistance counts against elixirs, whether beneficial or harmful, so Talismans and Charms should likewise have to overcome the resistance of a character with MR.

I sort of agree about a Talisman but a Charm is 'always on' so would you roll the moment the character puts that Charm on? If you fail the roll the Charm does not take affect? What if you take it off then put it back on again, do you roll again? Oh so many questions - lol

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by KataH

I sort of agree about a Talisman but a Charm is 'always on' so would you roll the moment the character puts that Charm on? If you fail the roll the Charm does not take affect? What if you take it off then put it back on again, do you roll again? Oh so many questions - lol

I think being able to try over and over to get a Charm to work would be cheesy. One way to deal with it could be:
Roll against your resistance once. If you make it, that Charm will never work for you. Otherwise it lasts as long as you wear the Charm. If you take it off, you'll have to roll again when you put it back on.

That's just me though. You could come up with other versions where having Magic Resistance is a major inconvenience when you want a magical effect to work on you.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

I think being able to try over and over to get a Charm to work would be cheesy. One way to deal with it could be:
Roll against your resistance once. If you make it, that Charm will never work for you. Otherwise it lasts as long as you wear the Charm. If you take it off, you'll have to roll again when you put it back on.

That's just me though. You could come up with other versions where having Magic Resistance is a major inconvenience when you want a magical effect to work on you.

If I were running "if the charm fails to work, it will never again work for that person" I would definitely rule "check once per charm- if it succeeds, it always works for that person, otherwise it always fails". Having only one chance to succeed but unlimited chances to fail seems unnecessarily punishing, especially given that Magic Resistance is nominally an advantage. Alternatively, I might rule "check once per day [or other unit of time]. No amount of taking it off and on again will change the result until that time has elapsed, and it is still necessary to check again at the end of that time even if the charm is worn continuously".

[Rolando]

I wound't roll for always on things.

It makes things complicated and with little reward to anyone involved, the game will not play better, nor faster, nor more interesting by it.

If it is something that needs to activate I would roll at the moment of the activation, otherwise always on is always on.

As an alternative, if you still think it requires a roll vs Magical resistance, I would roll only when the talisman is intended to be of use. If it is a protection vs arrows (always on) I would roll when the first arrow hit the character, not at the moment it is worn.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Drone 5

I need some clarification on a character with Magic Resistance using as Talisman.

I know, as per the rules, " alchemical charms – minor magical items that confer the effects of an alchemical elixir on a more lasting basis."

When it comes to the two types of Charms discussed on M220, I think the big question here is about how Amulets work, not Talismans.

Talismans "work only for a limited time" and have uses-per-day recharges. There's no special questions. One resistance roll = one normal duration of effect for elixir.

Amulets OTOH due to their indefinite nature do indeed raise questions.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

If it acts like an Elixir does that mean that those with Magic Resistance have to roll for effect like they do when trying to use an Elixir?

I think so, yes. Although "When a talisman is used, its effects last as long as the corresponding elixir would" doesn't directly talk about resistance rolls and bonuses/penalties the implication seems pretty strong they're interchangeable.

B67's wording actually made me think this was optional: "you may roll
against HT + Magic Resistance to resist the effects of magical elixirs" as opposed to "you must".

That said it is immediately followed by a reminder that you can't turn it off "to benefit from helpful elixirs" so that does sound like it's mandatory and should've been a 'must'.

Originally Posted by KataH

a Charm is 'always on' so would you roll the moment the character puts that Charm on? If you fail the roll the Charm does not take affect? What if you take it off then put it back on again, do you roll again?

I figure we defer to B101's "Duration for Advantages" policy being 10 seconds.

IE if you pass the resistance roll: the charm can't affect you for 10 seconds, then it can, and you roll again.

If you fail the resistance roll, the charm affects you for 10 seconds and then you make another mandatory HT+MR resistance roll to see if it affects you for the next ten.

I'm curious how we figure whether an elixir made into a charm can be either an amulet, a talisman, or both?

We know for example there is a "Talisman of Charisma" and a "Talisman of Luck" but does that mean there can't be an "Amulet of Charisma" or an "Amulet of Luck" ?

I think the key difference is that with a Talisman, you only briefly need the Charm on your person to activate a spell for a duration (then you can safely be without it to enjoy the benefit) whereas with an Amulet, while you have unlimited duration (no 'uses per day' problems) you have the requirement (unlike a talisman) of keeping the object on your person to keep enjoying the benefit (meaning you lose the benefit if it's stolen)

It seems like in regard to "wearing" there's only 2 times a Talisman needs it: to activate a charge, or to recharge. But during the use of the charge, it doesn't seem like you need to be wearing it.

[Drone 5]

Just like many of the rules in GURPS, the wording is not perfect and a further details are required.
I think I will do the following:
Charms, roll resistance once when you put it you succeed it works, if yo fail it does not work and you cannot try again for 24 hours (or the length of your planet's full rotational cycle.
For a Talisman, it acts just like an Elixir. You roll, success and it works, Fail ant is does not and the charge is lost.
This does seem a bit harsh when rolling HT+MR. Maybe I allow a Will roll to force it to work instead. JMHO.

[Rolando]

You want magical resistance means you don't want magic. You can't have your cake and eat it too (is that the idiomatic phrase?).

You may increase (or reduce) the cost of MR if you add some modifier "Doesn't affect alchemy". Or definitely increase it with "I can override it with a Will roll".