using DX to implement Perception-based ruses

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Plane

B394 seems to imply you can attack at merely -4 in a circumstance like this.

... and my suggestion gave (at most) a -2 to the enemy's defenses. You know what else will give a -2 to the enemy's defenses? Taking a -4 to hit with Deceptive Attack, and you don't have to waste time finding papers to throw in the air and manage to do so with your foot. This is basically "Deceptive Attack with more steps and less reliability," hence my assertion that "any benefit would be lost by needing to reacquire the target once you push through the wall."

To be fair, I wasn't actually aware of that -4 to hit. I was just thinking "in a case where each of you is equally blinded to the location of the other, and you become visible to each other at the same moment in your attack, any benefit from the foe having difficulty to defend will be negated by your own difficulty to attack."

Originally Posted by Plane

Also seems interesting someone is more likely to crit-fail (fumble their weapon, hurt themself) when attacking unseen foes.

Some penalties shouldn't be taken into account when determining if a failure is a critical one (just as some bonuses shouldn't be taken into account when determining if a success is a critical one). Range and Size modifiers are big ones. A foe being unseen (or just difficult to see) typically would be as well, although if this is because everything is difficult to see - say, you're in a dark room, there's clutter all over the place, there's blood or sweat in your eyes, or similar - then a boosted chance of a critfail makes sense. That's all a bit complex, however.

Originally Posted by Plane

Using the -6 rule also seems pretty interesting... it seems to imply (since -4 requires knowing the hex) that -6 means you don't even know what hex you're attacking into?

I believe with the -6 case, you (the player) have to guess which hex to attack, and if you guess incorrectly it doesn't matter how well you roll, it's a miss, although a generous GM might have the attack still affect the target somehow on a Critical Success - perhaps the foe was just about to enter that hex and lets out a frightened yelp when your attack passes through it (revealing their location), you conveniently hit a piece of scenery and caused a piece of it to strike the target (possibly doing a bit of damage, and again revealing their location), and so forth. A Critical Success means you had good luck, so improbable events should certainly be on the table.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Varyon

... and my suggestion gave (at most) a -2 to the enemy's defenses. You know what else will give a -2 to the enemy's defenses? Taking a -4 to hit with Deceptive Attack, and you don't have to waste time finding papers to throw in the air and manage to do so with your foot. This is basically "Deceptive Attack with more steps and less reliability," hence my assertion that "any benefit would be lost by needing to reacquire the target once you push through the wall."

I keep wanting to explore the idea that there is some kind of advantage the kicking the papers up.

If it's not to penalize defenses then I'm thinking maybe papers could temporarily work like cover DR against an aerosol weapon?

It was my first impression anyway "I don't want to get sprayed in the face, if I do this if she sprays it will hit the papers not my face"

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Plane

I keep wanting to explore the idea that there is some kind of advantage the kicking the papers up.

(I finally watched the video you posted)

It's almost indistinguishable from throwing sand at someone's face --- just, there were papers available yet no sand, and anime logic dictates that hard things are actually easy (kicking papers just-so wouldn't really work like that).

As has already been noted in this thread, it's a Ruse (or maybe just a Dirty Trick).