Allies that are rivals

[Angle]

That's relatively easy to model, just buy them as alternative abilities.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Do you really need to cause the GM and the party that much trouble?

Allies are NPCs and the GM has to run them. This could cause extra problems for the GM.

The GM would have to give his approval, of course. And it is a classic trope, although more for villain than for heroes.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Anders

What if a character has two Allies - and they really don't like each other. They won't work well together and, in fact, each one will spoil the other guys plan if they think it's too good. Is this worth a reduction?

Alternate Abilities. When one is useful the other is treacherous.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Anders

What if a character has two Allies - and they really don't like each other. They won't work well together and, in fact, each one will spoil the other guys plan if they think it's too good. Is this worth a reduction?

This concept instantly makes my mind got straight to Ranma and Ryoga.

I would first decided are both PCs? no point cost here except maybe a quirk to repstnet the rivalry

of one a PC the other an NPC I would build this like you woul the Ally/Depent build but with Ally/Enemy(Rival) instead

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Last Pawn

As having both Allies have each other as Enemy (Rival) would lower their value, which would in turn lower the value of their rival, which would thus raise their value... Well, things could get bizarrely recursive awfully fast. Besides which, the concern is their cost to the PC, not their cost in relation to each other, and as they suffer a reduced effectiveness I'd think some reduction in cost is valid. The problem being that I can't think of a suitable limitation value. On the other hand, giving them both Odious Personal Habit (Needless Rivalry with X) seems like it might fit the bill, with the reaction penalty serving to represent how much their bickering ticks off everyone else.

There is no benefit to guessing at the value of an OPH when the mechanics for Enemy are already right there.

Recursion is not a problem in this case because the particular relationships are already defined. And it's not a problem in general because these kind of NPCs are totally subject to GM wishes.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Do you really need to cause the GM and the party that much trouble?

Of course he does. It's a lovely idea and has plenty of precedence both in fiction and real life. Look at the Tams and Jayne; or Lando and G'kar at the beginning of the fourth season, or all Garek's delicious machinations in DS9. If it can be made to work it shouldn't be left out.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Of course he does. It's a lovely idea and has plenty of precedence both in fiction and real life. Look at the Tams and Jayne; or Lando and G'kar at the beginning of the fourth season, or all Garek's delicious machinations in DS9. If it can be made to work it shouldn't be left out.

None of those characters are well represented as anyone's Ally. The basic problem with this idea is that it leads to GM characters interacting with each other rather than the player characters and that never turns out well.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

None of those characters are well represented as anyone's Ally. The basic problem with this idea is that it leads to GM characters interacting with each other rather than the player characters and that never turns out well.

Thank you. You said what I would have but much more understandable.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

None of those characters are well represented as anyone's Ally. The basic problem with this idea is that it leads to GM characters interacting with each other rather than the player characters and that never turns out well.

That's a point. Could work in a game with two GMs, though.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Anders

That's a point. Could work in a game with two GMs, though.

The problem is, though, that the most important characters that the GM(s) should deal with are the players.

What the rivalry sets up is a way for the GM and the one player to have fun at the expense of the other players.

What works well in fiction doesn't always work out in RPGs.