Ally *or* Patron (but not at the same time)

[Anaraxes]

Just a Patron. If he chooses to exercise his Patronage directly and in person, that's fine. Nothing says Patrons have to be remote and impersonal.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

In the role as a Patron he's the emperor of a vast kingdom and can rally those resources when need be - he's essentially a ad visor/protector. As a Ally he'd just be...well himself (however powerful).

Such a reduction in effectiveness would be why (smart) Patrons usually choose to stay home where they provide more benefit to their proteges than bringing just another weapon. They also generally have other duties (or Duties) than the PCs.

There might, of course, be good reasons for an exception -- and the exceptional cases can make for interesting adventures. Why does this Patron think it'd be better to accompany the party this time?

[Pragmatic]

Not sure if it's been suggested yet, but what about alternate abilities?

[Fwibos]

If it's either/or then at abilities would be appropriate, I suppose.

But, think about buying Patron as normal, but making Ally (Friend of a friend) with a lower frequency. So sometimes he's a patron and he comes along for the ride. That way he can still act as an authority.

Also keep in mind that, per Charactesr p37 at 150% of the PCs total, they must be bought as Patrons. So you may just buy Patron and then the patron might just come along when he feels like it.

[Rocket Man]

If he's pulling a "Captain Gars" and using an alter ego when he ventures into the countryside, I'd price an Ally and a Patron separately, since he's effectively leaving the king behind to become someone else. But if he's still recognizably "His Majesty," I'd say he remains a Patron.

The one other exception I might make is if there's powerful abilities he can't use from the throne room that he can when present. For an extreme example, picture King Superman. Having him along for the ride is vastly different from having him cheering you on from Camelotropolis.

[kirbwarrior]

I think the simplest solution is; Does the GM or the Player (not character) decide when the Patron is an Ally? If it's the GM, then that's just plot. If it's the Player, then it's alternative abilities, or the player just decided when the FoA happens if the npc is an Ally or Patron this campaign. This isn't much different than allowing the player to do horizontal change (as per Impulse Buys).

The main part I want to emphasize is, I don't think the character should decide if it's an Ally or Patron. If they decide, then at least the Ally should have Summonable or something.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Thanks guys, you've been most helpful and that more or less answers the questions I had. :-)

[Leynok]

My first thought was just Patron with an enhancement. Cosmic; Rule Bending lets you change details about an advantage that isn't an attack or defence for +50%, but it looks closer to a +100% or more to me, considering that Patrons can get much more powerful for their point cost compared to allies.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Leynok

My first thought was just Patron with an enhancement. Cosmic; Rule Bending lets you change details about an advantage that isn't an attack or defence for +50%, but it looks closer to a +100% or more to me, considering that Patrons can get much more powerful for their point cost compared to allies.

This works for powerful Patrons, just put Rules Bending onto Ally for having an ally far more powerful than you.