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Old 10-13-2014, 11:20 AM   #881
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
I really like Capcom games, so the Vs series is never far from my mind and yes that is not canon Marvel. XD Otherwise, I would have leaned towards making Iron Fist one (with my limited knowledge of the character). A key (...I made a pun, didn't I?) is do Super countermeasures affect his chi based powers? I can't remember if Marvel has "reality stabilizers" or the like.
Not sure how it is in the mainstream Marvel U, but in the Reboot technological countermeasures exist for Super, Mutant, Psionic, and Mutant Psionic powers (essentially, power-dampening shackles), and Chemical, Biological, and Passive Biological powers get pharmacological countermeasures (better living through drugs). Mutant Biology (e.g. Angel's wings or Beast's foot manipulators) has no special countermeasures. (Magical, Divine, and Demonic channel external energies, and are subject to other countermeasures). I have to read up to see how Chi is composed; I didn't make note of it because I didn't expect to have more than a handful of peeps with Chi powers besides Iron Fist.

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Seems like every major comic universe has to have their own version of the Vault (no really, the way most are set-up they have to have their own version), and I think before I stopped reading Marvel comics regularly, I think they started having more than the Vault... so I could easily be thinking of a different setting. ^^'

Otherwise... I vaguely remember prison facilities where guys like Batroc and Zaran end up being influential because they lose nothing or next to nothing from their abilities, while supers (mutant or otherwise), various mystically empowered characters, etc. all do because every power modifier they can think of has been locked down. So guys like that basically rule the gen pop.
Well, guys like Batroc and Zaran don't have powers, just intense training. Not surprising they'd rule the prison yards over the common crook.

I think the current super-prisons in the Marvel U are part of Ryker's Island in NY and whatever is on the west coast; from what I read, they closed the Vault down in the early '00s (actually, I think they destroyed it, but please don't quote me on that).

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It was towards the very end of the time I was reading Wolverine's solo book, he ended up in jail. Interestingly, his healing factor was also shut down and the injections they gave him were to keep him from succumbing to heavy metal poisoning due to his own adamantium skeleton (or some similar medical complication). I think physical restraints kept his claws in check, but since this was over 10 years ago, exact details are sketchy. ^^'
Well, power dampers in the MU would negate his healing factor (he's had it suppressed many times in the past without having to deal with metal poisoning, though). Physical restraints for the claws would have to be adamantium themselves. Not cheap. Surprised the US didn't just deport him to Canada and let Department H handle him, what with Logan being a foreigner.

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My apologies; I shouldn't have raised the matter until I had more clear examples in my mind Also, just to be clear, "Super Saiyan" was just a reference point and not implying an actual character... though for all I know, there could be one like that in the MU. XD
I know, and I was using your terminology so we were on the same page.

Honestly, though, I can't think of any characters who channeled their chi to gain more power than the Immortal Weapons.
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The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-M and N-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:48 AM   #882
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
...

I really like Capcom games, so the Vs series is never far from my mind and yes that is not canon Marvel. XD Otherwise, I would have leaned towards making Iron Fist one (with my limited knowledge of the character). A key (...I made a pun, didn't I?) is do Super countermeasures affect his chi based powers? I
No indication that they do. When his power has been messed with, it has been by magic. But then again he got it by winning it as a prize from a godlike dragon in a ritual combat so that's some Doctor Strange b.s. right there.
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Old 10-13-2014, 03:11 PM   #883
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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...
Well, power dampers in the MU would negate his healing factor (he's had it suppressed many times in the past without having to deal with metal poisoning, though). Physical restraints for the claws would have to be adamantium themselves. Not cheap. Surprised the US didn't just deport him to Canada and let Department H handle him, what with Logan being a foreigner.
...
Heavy metal poisoning is only for those dissolved in tissues. I thought nothing could dissolve adamantium in its final form. Not to mention that if it can be dissolved, eventually over centuries or so he would excrete it all out.
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Old 10-13-2014, 03:21 PM   #884
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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I'm curious to know which characters you had in mind who might qualify for Super Chi, though.
The Immortal weapons, of course. Then there's the new Power Man (not Luke Cage) who has a super ability to absorb and direct chi without any training. http://marvel.com/universe/Power_Man...tor_Alvarez%29
They all do much more "super-ish" than Elektra or the members of Hand.
In my opinion, they're still the same power modifier, just one set of characters has stronger abilities than the other. Power Man might be unique in that his powers might be Super and Chi based (meaning he can suffer from Chi blocking and Superpower-countering). I don't know enough about him though as he's relatively new.
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:29 PM   #885
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Cap's due for an update. This is a large project, after all.
I'll be looking forward to it. Beware the escalating re-write trap though ;)
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:24 PM   #886
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

One other thing regarding Cap vs Iron Fist skill levels.

I see Cap as being a much more pragmatic fighter, not soaking as many penalties for fancy maneuvering. His Boxing, Judo, Karate, Wrestling, and Shield skills are exceptional in the 18-20 range, but his application of them would tend to be more straightforward. Punching the face isn't going to impose that great a penalty for him (especially if he takes the Targeted Attack technique), so he doesn't need a super-high skill.

On the other hand, Iron Fist having Judo and Karate at 25 means he's expecting to pull a lot of Deceptive Attacks or called shots to various small body parts like joints. He's also got a bunch of melee weapon skills in the 14-18 range which may or may not be called upon as often, but he's primarily an unarmed combatant.

Clear as mud with my reasoning?
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"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-M and N-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:13 PM   #887
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
One other thing regarding Cap vs Iron Fist skill levels.

I see Cap as being a much more pragmatic fighter, not soaking as many penalties for fancy maneuvering. His Boxing, Judo, Karate, Wrestling, and Shield skills are exceptional in the 18-20 range, but his application of them would tend to be more straightforward. Punching the face isn't going to impose that great a penalty for him (especially if he takes the Targeted Attack technique), so he doesn't need a super-high skill.

On the other hand, Iron Fist having Judo and Karate at 25 means he's expecting to pull a lot of Deceptive Attacks or called shots to various small body parts like joints. He's also got a bunch of melee weapon skills in the 14-18 range which may or may not be called upon as often, but he's primarily an unarmed combatant.

Clear as mud with my reasoning?
I think I get the basic concept but what I disagree with is how they're simulated in game terms. Remember, a Deceptive Attack doesn't have to be tricky - it can just represent sheer speed. Just because Cap is practical and Iron Fist likes to do the tricky stuff doesn't mean Iron Fist is more skilled. It's just a different approach. Remember, Cap is routinely expected to take out multiple skilled opponents quickly - he's soaking up penalties for multiple attacks and probably some Deceptive Attacks each turn. Also, Iron Fist's normal range ST gives him an incentive to get tricky. So I'd be inclined to give them similar base skill. Something like this.

Cap has higher DX and thus lower relative skill. He typically takes penalties for multiple attacks and Deceptive Attacks because he tries to take down multiple mooks in a single turn. Against a single, stronger and tougher foe he might get trickier. The use of direct, practical attacks reflects both personality and necessity.

Iron Fist has lower DX and higher relative skill. He is more likely than Cap to face opponents who match or exceed him in raw physical power (ST/HP/HT.) Therefore he buys up Feint technique and uses that to set up a tricky follow up attack intended to bring down the opponent, perhaps a targeted strike to a difficult hit location or a use of Pressure Points skill. Again, a reflection of personality and necessity. Taking down a mountain of muscle with a single well placed blow is more Martial Arts Masterish than simply using a flurry of basic punches to overwhelm such an opponent.

That's my take but it's your reboot. I also freely admit the movies have made me a big fan of Cap.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:16 PM   #888
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
One other thing regarding Cap vs Iron Fist skill levels.

I see Cap as being a much more pragmatic fighter, not soaking as many penalties for fancy maneuvering. His Boxing, Judo, Karate, Wrestling, and Shield skills are exceptional in the 18-20 range, but his application of them would tend to be more straightforward. Punching the face isn't going to impose that great a penalty for him (especially if he takes the Targeted Attack technique), so he doesn't need a super-high skill.

On the other hand, Iron Fist having Judo and Karate at 25 means he's expecting to pull a lot of Deceptive Attacks or called shots to various
Officially Captain America is supposed to be about the second best hand to hand combatant in 616's Earth. And he can hit Spider-man, the ultimate dodge-meister.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:31 PM   #889
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Officially Captain America is supposed to be about the second best hand to hand combatant in 616's Earth. And he can hit Spider-man, the ultimate dodge-meister.
Where did you find that?

It differs a bit from what I've seen presented in various ranking schemes by Marvel.
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:18 PM   #890
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Four whole pages for the Wolverine IT:Unbreakable Bones discussion, and not one word about whether his claws are better as Claws (Talons) or Cutting/Impaling Strikers. I think that beats the Daredevil mitigated-Blindness discussion from last year! :)
I modeled the claws as talons. On my Wolverine they do 2d+4 cut/imp
Here's the breakdown of the skeleton & claws I used:
Spoiler:  

I realize that the skull DR & IT:DR make it seem like he could puncture his own skull, but I limited the IT:DR and DR to account for energy weapons and blunt force trauma (I'm now thinking it's too much).
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