03-08-2024, 07:18 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2023
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Question about two handed and Guige
it says that shieldwall perk removes the penalty to using shield.
question is does that count while using a guige and not holding it? as RAW i don't see anything it's saying it's not? i'm thinking one could have a greatsword and a kite shield. kite shield gives 3+ block negating the penalty you get from using a guige. so while it's still better to use it the shield one handed you get 0 from using this way. what do you guys think? |
03-08-2024, 07:45 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
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The Shieldwall Perk dates to Martial arts while guige is from the later Low Tech book. It's just my opinion but I would not allow a guige to be used with either the Shieldwall Perk or Swung weapons. With a Greatsword in your arms there's no way for a rope around your neck to keep your shield between you and your enemies. Guige is use is for less mobile and athletic styles (or a third arm maybe). The guige's heyday was in the Classical period among spear users. For rpg fans who go b ack to Runequest and Glorantha, guige use in combat is a form of the Sun Temple's infamous "Two-handed Spear with Shield" technique.
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Fred Brackin |
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03-08-2024, 09:12 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Aug 2023
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spa6VBKRpW8 skalla. shad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttJ8LdOQdSc now i agree for what i talked about is a bit cinamatic. but if you add other rules like you cannot attack from that side i feel it's fine. |
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03-08-2024, 09:18 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
The Shield-Wall Perk says specifically "you may ignore the -2 to attack (B547) when holding a large shield". That penalty in the modifiers table is for "Holding a large shield", whether with or without a guige. The big shield gets in the way.
A "guige" is a strap that carries some of the weight of a shield. One is assumed to be part of any shield with DB 2+ (LTC2 20), though you can get a small price and weight discount for removing it. Note that DB 2 includes medium shields, not just large ones. Occasionally, the guige was intended to carry all of the weight of the shield (as with the Mycenaean shield on LT 114), but generally shields were also held and controlled with one hand, with the guige assisting. The guige is also the bit that lets you sling a shield on your back to carry it, Boromir-style. (I think the use of "guige" to mean "shield used only with a strap" is one of those RPG-isms like the D&D "longsword".) The -3 for a no-hands Block using only the guige to control the shield (optional rule on LTC2 19) is in addition to any other penalty to the Active Defense you might have. It's also not an attack penalty, but a defense penalty, and applies regardless of the size of the shield. So, the Shield-Wall Perk doesn't apply to this penalty. This no-hands penalty is the one you'd use if you were trying to block with your shield while it is slung on your back, or for those instances like the Myceanan shield. Note that this rule also introduces the Shield (Guige) specialty, which defaults at -2 to other Shield specialties. This is the skill a character would probably train if the plan is for their routine to be fighting with a greatsword and a no-hands shield with a guige, or else they'd have to soak an additional -2 from the default from their regular Shield skill. J. Random Adventurer that's caught with their shield on their back, but wants to try a desperation Block, would have the -3 for No Hands as well as the -2 for defaulting to Shield (Guige) from their regular Shield skill. If the big strap-only shield is a significant feature of the character, you might want to break out those advanced guige rules. If it's just a one-off thing for J. R. Adventurer in a game that doesn't routinely go into those details, you might just ignore them. Up to you how much of that sort of detail you want to get into. Last edited by Anaraxes; 03-08-2024 at 09:30 AM. |
03-08-2024, 10:11 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2023
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
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What i mean by this is that you still get the no hands penalty but the large shield negates this unto a 0. while if you used in your hand it will be 3+. i'm thinking of my teammates build who wants to use a greatsword but campaign hes going to end up on a big battlefield where people have bows and such. if he could negate the ability to attack while having the Guige with the shieldwall perk. and negate the minus of having using a guige with a big shield it would totally be worth it |
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03-08-2024, 10:31 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
IRL, I have a guige on one of my shields. From carrying it multiple days in a row, it seems the strap is best used as a way to keep your shield arm fresh until fighting occurs (worn so your arm is almost in a sling position). If the guige is long enough to move the shield properly, then it offers nearly no benefit to preventing the arm from tiring out. So the guige would probably be removed from around the neck and held looped in the shield hand before close quarters fighting. It could be left on while protecting versus ranged assault, but again the shield arm would be doing all the work.
I suppose an alternate use might be as a tether in case the shield isn't strapped to the arm. All said, a guige does nothing for using the shield to block on its own. You have to use at least one arm to maneuver the shield. Last edited by Culture20; 03-08-2024 at 10:35 AM. |
03-08-2024, 10:46 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
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But then, rereading your posts, I think you already know that, and are instead simply asking if Shield Wall Training would negate the penalty for attacking with your sword while using the guige hands-free. As there is no penalty beyond the typical -DB or -2 to attacking while using a guige hands-free, I'd say Shield Wall Training would allow the character to wield their greatsword (or whatever) at no penalty. I would suggest the character opt for a shield with a buckler grip, which takes only one Ready to grab and a free action to drop. That way, the character can simply carry their sword in one hand and keep the other on their shield while advancing (allowing them to Block arrows at full skill), then drop the shield (leaving it hanging by the guige) and Ready their sword (which may be able to be shortened to a free action with Fast-Draw; I'd honestly be inclined to do this as something like Fast-Draw +4). Once they're done with that fight, they let go of their sword with their off-hand (a free action), leaving it unready, and use a Ready to grab their shield (again, appropriate Fast-Draw should be able to avoid this, but Fast-Draw (Buckler) is pretty niche). You lose a second or two for each melee exchange compared to just leaving the shield hanging by the guige the whole time, but being able to Block arrows at (Buckler/2)+6 rather than (Guige/2)+3 is probably well worth it.
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03-08-2024, 12:42 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2023
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
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03-08-2024, 01:11 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
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03-08-2024, 09:35 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Aug 2023
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Re: Question about two handed and Guige
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