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Old 04-24-2017, 08:14 PM   #1
4rc4num
 
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Default [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

1. About Wards, can a Path of Magic ward block "missile spell" like "fireball" ?

2. How works the activation of a enchanted item like a fireball staff ? It use the rules of "innate attack" advantage when it cause damage?

3. Can Path of Magic create "magic missile" ? If yes, is possible to add the damage modifier "explosion" to a Path of Magic missile ? Plus, the missile is invisible like ambient mana ?

4. Talking about that, is possible to use a Control Magic to reflect/change the direction of a missile spell ? If yes, the spell need to add the Meta Spell Modifier or no (the text says "dispelling" and "altering the magic", but in this case what the Control Magic do is "changing the direction" of the missile or a good analogy, in GURPS terms, the "innate attack skill roll") ?

4. Again about the missile spell, is possible to make a "homing" missile with Path of Magic ?

5. A mage can manipulate the mana reserve of other mages, but what happens if the mage try to put more mana than the limit of mana reserve ? It causes damage ? The mage becomes a "Christmas Tree" ? Nothing happens ?
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Old 04-24-2017, 08:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4rc4num View Post
1. About Wards, can a Path of Magic ward block "missile spell" like "fireball" ?

2. How works the activation of a enchanted item like a fireball staff ? It use the rules of "innate attack" advantage when it cause damage?

3. Can Path of Magic create "magic missile" ? If yes, is possible to add the damage modifier "explosion" to a Path of Magic missile ? Plus, the missile is invisible like ambient mana ?

4. Talking about that, is possible to use a Control Magic to reflect/change the direction of a missile spell ? If yes, the spell need to add the Meta Spell Modifier or no (the text says "dispelling" and "altering the magic", but in this case what the Control Magic do is "changing the direction" of the missile or a good analogy, in GURPS terms, the "innate attack skill roll") ?

4. Again about the missile spell, is possible to make a "homing" missile with Path of Magic ?

5. A mage can manipulate the mana reserve of other mages, but what happens if the mage try to put more mana than the limit of mana reserve ? It causes damage ? The mage becomes a "Christmas Tree" ? Nothing happens ?
Mostly No.
Path of Magic can manipulate magic not other energy so it wont block a typical missile spell.
Adding more energy to an Er I would treat as Energy Absorbtion (DR) and have it drain off at 1 point of energy per second if not used up until the ER is within its limits.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

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Originally Posted by 4rc4num View Post
1. About Wards, can a Path of Magic ward block "missile spell" like "fireball" ?
No, that's an external effect. The magic is to create the effect - once its created its not magical anymore.


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2. How works the activation of a enchanted item like a fireball staff ?
Depends on the advantage used - it's likely Burning Attack. That means it works just like the advantage, e.g., requires a DX or Innate Attack roll to hit.

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It use the rules of "innate attack" advantage when it cause damage?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by 4rc4num View Post
3. Can Path of Magic create "magic missile" ? If yes, is possible to add the damage modifier "explosion" to a Path of Magic missile ? Plus, the missile is invisible like ambient mana ?
Yes to the first two, the second requires you add the No Signature enhancement for +4 energy (each +5% adds +1 energy).

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Originally Posted by 4rc4num View Post
4. Talking about that, is possible to use a Control Magic to reflect/change the direction of a missile spell ? If yes, the spell need to add the Meta Spell Modifier or no (the text says "dispelling" and "altering the magic", but in this case what the Control Magic do is "changing the direction" of the missile or a good analogy, in GURPS terms, the "innate attack skill roll") ?
Yes. That's a Control effect. Depending on the subject the Path will change: all forms of energy will require Path of Energy, physical items like bullets or arrows will require Path of Matter.

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4. Again about the missile spell, is possible to make a "homing" missile with Path of Magic ?
Yes, Add the Homing enhancement (p. B106) and calculate energy as +1 per +5% of the enhancement.

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5. A mage can manipulate the mana reserve of other mages, but what happens if the mage try to put more mana than the limit of mana reserve ? It causes damage ? The mage becomes a "Christmas Tree" ? Nothing happens ?
Nothing. You can't. Once it's at 0 it's done. Use the rules for Fatigue attacks along with a Greater Destroy Magic to damage the mana reserve.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

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No, that's an external effect. The magic is to create the effect - once its created its not magical anymore.
But... there's no such thing as a magic missile. Or any construct of so called "energy" which, once created, behaves like an RPM missile spell. Surely if I create a ball of fire in my hand which doesn't burn me, but after I throw it and hit a guy it does 12d of damage to him, that is a construct of magic no?
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

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But... there's no such thing as a magic missile. Or any construct of so called "energy" which, once created, behaves like an RPM missile spell. Surely if I create a ball of fire in my hand which doesn't burn me, but after I throw it and hit a guy it does 12d of damage to him, that is a construct of magic no?
This is why once you create it you must roll Innate Attack. Once your conjure the energy is just energy. Once it leaves your hand that's it. While it's in your hand you get the residual effect where it's not hurting you. This is why external damage spells subject is always the caster - your putting the energy into your hand.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

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This is why once you create it you must roll Innate Attack. Once your conjure the energy is just energy. Once it leaves your hand that's it. While it's in your hand you get the residual effect where it's not hurting you. This is why external damage spells subject is always the caster - your putting the energy into your hand.
I normally consider your opinion on RPM matters to be cannon, but with all due respect, that seems like needlessly contortionist logic. Should an anti-vampire ward stop protecting against a vampire if they turn into a bat? No of course not. Turning into a bat is an expression of vampire powers, just as throwing a fireball is an expression of magic.

But let's set aside for a second the metaphysics consideration of what is or isn't a spell. That's got to be up to the GM, and based in the world-building IMHO.

My players oft note gurps can be unintuitive, and the ones who don't play witches occasionally remark that RPM borders on OP. I'm getting a sunburn just imagining the blazing squint-eye my non-rpm players would turn on me if I let the party witch ignore an anti-magic ward with a spell called "magic missile."
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

A magic shield protects against magic not what the magic creates. Spells whose effects are on the other side of the shield will be blocked.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

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Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post
I normally consider your opinion on RPM matters to be cannon, but with all due respect, that seems like needlessly contortionist logic. Should an anti-vampire ward stop protecting against a vampire if they turn into a bat? No of course not. Turning into a bat is an expression of vampire powers, just as throwing a fireball is an expression of magic.
Not really convulated at all - this is simply how missile spells work in most cases in GURPS - there is a line in MH1 in the damage section that matches that. That said. I'll cast Greater Create Crossroads and summon PK.

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But let's set aside for a second the metaphysics consideration of what is or isn't a spell. That's got to be up to the GM, and based in the world-building IMHO.
It could be yes.

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My players oft note gurps can be unintuitive, and the ones who don't play witches occasionally remark that RPM borders on OP. I'm getting a sunburn just imagining the blazing squint-eye my non-rpm players would turn on me if I let the party witch ignore an anti-magic ward with a spell called "magic missile."
So "magic missile" in this case (assuming a DnD context) is a direct damage dealing spell because it always hits. So it's an HT or Will roll vs. Path skill. Success would mean they take damage.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

As written, a ward vs. magic stops "hostile spells" from being "cast on the subject or into the area," where a hostile spell is defined as one which the subject attempts to resist. Unfortunately, the rules in neither GT:RPM nor DF19 explicitly discuss missile spells, which are (by definition) neither resisted nor cast directly onto a subject.

So this needs to be a FAQ, which means it needs a bit of consideration.

It's tempting to say that a missile spell is certainly "a hostile spell," definition on p. 24 be damned. But that opens up a slippery slope -- sure, an impossible-in-nature ball of flame being thrown across the street feels like something a ward should affect, but what about a conjured rock? Or a summoned sword? Wards vs magic aren't supposed to be force-fields that block physical attacks; they're protection against being mind controlled, turned into a toad, having your liver turned to ice, and so on.

My instinct is to say that an area effect ward vs. magic will resist missile spells (and other external attacks which are 100% created by a ritual) that cross its threshold. After all, the hostile mage can just walk through the ward to get around that problem. But I think it's cheating to say that a subject protected by a personal ward is now potentially immune to stone missiles, lightning, etc.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: [RPM] Some questions about Path of Magic ?

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As written, a ward vs. magic stops "hostile spells" from being "cast on the subject or into the area," where a hostile spell is defined as one which the subject attempts to resist. Unfortunately, the rules in neither GT:RPM nor DF19 explicitly discuss missile spells, which are (by definition) neither resisted nor cast directly onto a subject.
I dropped the ball here too. I probably should have voiced more concern on this when I was finalizing the ward rules (because I altered them some) for DF19. And I'm kind of the other authority on RPM other than yourself so it's possible I should have brought this straight to you without further comment. The problem is I didn't consider because I figured you were leaving the assumption of GURPS Magic missile spells vs. Magic Resistance and similiar spells in play, that is, once conjured it ceases to be magical.

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So this needs to be a FAQ, which means it needs a bit of consideration.
Agreed.

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It's tempting to say that a missile spell is certainly "a hostile spell," definition on p. 24 be damned. But that opens up a slippery slope -- sure, an impossible-in-nature ball of flame being thrown across the street feels like something a ward should affect, but what about a conjured rock? Or a summoned sword? Wards vs magic aren't supposed to be force-fields that block physical attacks; they're protection against being mind controlled, turned into a toad, having your liver turned to ice, and so on.
The latter part of the last sentence is honestly how I've always seen this working. It's what makes a ward + a magic shield or the like so synergistically awesome. The ward protects vs. hostile direct attacks the shield blocks hostile indirect attacks.

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My instinct is to say that an area effect ward vs. magic will resist missile spells (and other external attacks which are 100% created by a ritual) that cross its threshold. After all, the hostile mage can just walk through the ward to get around that problem. But I think it's cheating to say that a subject protected by a personal ward is now potentially immune to stone missiles, lightning, etc.
I think that could work, but perhaps since all ward spells are Lesser effects maybe blocking external effects as well makes them Greater. Using that logic you can just say a ward as a Lesser effect either stops direct attacks or indirect attack. So "this ward stops direct attacks, watch out for fireballs" or "this ward stops only indirect attacks, I hope the witch didn't get any of your blood because she can stop you heart if she did." If it does both, then it's a Greater effect.
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Last edited by Christopher R. Rice; 04-25-2017 at 12:45 AM. Reason: Clarity
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