Alternate Form: Fusion of many into one - Page 2

kdtipa · 04-11-2012, 06:03 AM

I'm sort of shocked no one has mentioned Dragonball Z yet. In that anime, two completely separate people could perform a technique called "fusion". They do a series of motions in mirror image of each other (it's actually kind of dumb looking in the anime) and if they get it just right, they fuse to become one being that is far more powerful than they were separately. And it would last for a little while... they had a time limit or something before they would pop apart.

It sounds like that's basically what you're going for. Two people fuse to become one more powerful entity. If I were writing it up for GURPS rules, I'd be tempted to make it a skill they learn and then just write up what happens when they merge. Something like "add their strengths together, take the higher DX, take the higher HT..."

Then for who's in control... they both are. They have to agree on their actions. So both players would have to agree, or at least allow one player to speak for them. Disagreement leads to inaction which is the detriment of the ability.

So if you do it this way, you're just asking them to spend points on a skill. Make it a Very Hard skill (can't decide if I would make it IQ or DX... maybe Will... I don't know yet), and they both have to succeed to in order for it to work. Maybe make degree of success control how long the fusion lasts.

I guess when you get down to it... I'm talking about just making crap up. You'd have to decide if it fits into the balance of the game.

wellspring · 04-11-2012, 06:15 AM

Maybe you should start by figuring out how this will work at the gaming table. What actually happens when they merge? Who plays the new, unified character? What do the other players do?

Option 1: Alex, Beth and Carl all leave to grab pizza, and Dave shows up to play the merged form.

Option 2: Alex plays both one of the components and the merged form. Beth and Carl go grab pizza during a merge.

Option 3: Alex, Beth and Carl all get a say in what their merged form does. In case of a disagreement, there's a vote (which might leave the merged form doing nothing while they hash it out). A serious enough disagreement might involuntarily break up the merged form.

Option 4: There are unique "crew stations" for each player. Each player only gets to make decisions related to their position. If a single player had been playing the merged character, this would take the form of some kind of limited compartmentalized mind. Again, there needs to be a system for resolving disagreements.

There are other possibilities, but I want to stop here and look at the specifics of Option 4. You notice that you'd price this character very differently depending on whether it's one player controlling it or three. Nobody should have to pay points for the privilege of not playing, especially since in gestalt entity fiction, the merged form is reserved for the climax of the story.

You want a mechanic that keeps all the players involved and at the table.

As for costing, option 1 is probably not a realistic way to play an RPG, but if you were intent on doing it that way you might build it as a summoning mechanic, with the regular characters unavailable while the gestalt is active. The gestalt itself is a distinct character played by Dave, which just isn't around most of the time.

Option 2 doesn't change Beth or Carl (they still don't get to play after merging) but Alex's character has a very high-point cost Alternate Form (he plays the merged entity, so he pays for it).

Option 3 and 4 might be built by designing the gestalt as an Alternate Form, but then splitting the cost among the other players, adding a limitation for the requirement that they all be together and cooperating for a merge. You could build it as a single body with two parasitic consciousnesses, but that's not fair on the guy bearing most of the point cost.

Gurps Fan · 04-11-2012, 07:57 AM

Our Asst. Line Editor has already spoken on this topic: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...04&postcount=7

Refplace · 04-11-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Our Asst. Line Editor has already spoken on this topic: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...04&postcount=7

Thank you, I knew I had seen it on the forums before but I thought it was Kromm who posted.

Not another shrubbery · 04-11-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refplace

Thank you, I knew I had seen it on the forums before but I thought it was Kromm who posted.

Check out the whole thread, if you haven't already. Der Wanderer had a nice idea for those builds.

the_matrix_walker · 04-11-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Our Asst. Line Editor has already spoken on this topic: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...04&postcount=7

It should be noted however that this was a few years before he was assistant line editor, and thus before his words had "the weight of Kromm" behind them.

Someone may want to ask him if this is still his answer in that context! Throwing some easy advice to a player can be quite different from an "officially sanctioned" suggestion.

That said, I almost said the same thing in my earlier post, lol.

I also think this plays into something I've been wondering about and that's using a modified form of "Shared Resources" for Morphing Duplicators, where instead of sharing HP and Fatigue, they share their "Template" pool.

BaHalus · 04-12-2012, 10:45 AM

who is in control is a very important question. What happens to the damage is another important question. What happens if the combined template dies is other question. The offline players are safe when combined or not? They exist in another plane? They remain awake? They have perception of reality, they have perception of other reality or have no perception at all?

If they share control, they should share points and maybe have some kind of limitation to represent what happens when they don't agree.

But, if all the players share everything in this unified template, why bother with charging points for this thing? Give it for free! It would be a problem only if some player decided to play someone outside this fusion template.

starslayer · 04-12-2012, 02:40 PM

Give one party an alternate form; other parties get alternate form as well- but instead of building there own alternate form, they get to add there point pool to the one party.

When the transformation takes place ALL of the point pools are totaled, and one much more powerful alternate form with the one party in control comes into being. The other parts are inside it, and if killed they all suffer as per alternate form.

If you just want a PC to play a group that turns into an alternate form they can take allies, or an ally group that alternate to the alternate form (IE- the allies 'stop working' and the alternate form 'starts working' when they combine).

Duplication alternating to an alternate form also works.

04-11-2012, 06:03 AM	#11
kdtipa Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern New Hampshire	Re: Alternate Form: Fusion of many into one I'm sort of shocked no one has mentioned Dragonball Z yet. In that anime, two completely separate people could perform a technique called "fusion". They do a series of motions in mirror image of each other (it's actually kind of dumb looking in the anime) and if they get it just right, they fuse to become one being that is far more powerful than they were separately. And it would last for a little while... they had a time limit or something before they would pop apart. It sounds like that's basically what you're going for. Two people fuse to become one more powerful entity. If I were writing it up for GURPS rules, I'd be tempted to make it a skill they learn and then just write up what happens when they merge. Something like "add their strengths together, take the higher DX, take the higher HT..." Then for who's in control... they both are. They have to agree on their actions. So both players would have to agree, or at least allow one player to speak for them. Disagreement leads to inaction which is the detriment of the ability. So if you do it this way, you're just asking them to spend points on a skill. Make it a Very Hard skill (can't decide if I would make it IQ or DX... maybe Will... I don't know yet), and they both have to succeed to in order for it to work. Maybe make degree of success control how long the fusion lasts. I guess when you get down to it... I'm talking about just making crap up. You'd have to decide if it fits into the balance of the game.

04-11-2012, 06:15 AM	#12
wellspring Join Date: Apr 2011	Re: Alternate Form: Fusion of many into one Maybe you should start by figuring out how this will work at the gaming table. What actually happens when they merge? Who plays the new, unified character? What do the other players do? Option 1: Alex, Beth and Carl all leave to grab pizza, and Dave shows up to play the merged form. Option 2: Alex plays both one of the components and the merged form. Beth and Carl go grab pizza during a merge. Option 3: Alex, Beth and Carl all get a say in what their merged form does. In case of a disagreement, there's a vote (which might leave the merged form doing nothing while they hash it out). A serious enough disagreement might involuntarily break up the merged form. Option 4: There are unique "crew stations" for each player. Each player only gets to make decisions related to their position. If a single player had been playing the merged character, this would take the form of some kind of limited compartmentalized mind. Again, there needs to be a system for resolving disagreements. There are other possibilities, but I want to stop here and look at the specifics of Option 4. You notice that you'd price this character very differently depending on whether it's one player controlling it or three. Nobody should have to pay points for the privilege of not playing, especially since in gestalt entity fiction, the merged form is reserved for the climax of the story. You want a mechanic that keeps all the players involved and at the table. As for costing, option 1 is probably not a realistic way to play an RPG, but if you were intent on doing it that way you might build it as a summoning mechanic, with the regular characters unavailable while the gestalt is active. The gestalt itself is a distinct character played by Dave, which just isn't around most of the time. Option 2 doesn't change Beth or Carl (they still don't get to play after merging) but Alex's character has a very high-point cost Alternate Form (he plays the merged entity, so he pays for it). Option 3 and 4 might be built by designing the gestalt as an Alternate Form, but then splitting the cost among the other players, adding a limitation for the requirement that they all be together and cooperating for a merge. You could build it as a single body with two parasitic consciousnesses, but that's not fair on the guy bearing most of the point cost.

04-11-2012, 07:57 AM	#13
Gurps Fan Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Japan	Re: Alternate Form: Fusion of many into one Our Asst. Line Editor has already spoken on this topic: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...04&postcount=7 __________________ Gurps Fan, a rules lawyer from the mysterious country of ninja, samurai, and magical girls, the inventor of M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N.

04-12-2012, 10:45 AM	#17
BaHalus Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Belém, Pará, Amazônia, Brasil.	Re: Alternate Form: Fusion of many into one who is in control is a very important question. What happens to the damage is another important question. What happens if the combined template dies is other question. The offline players are safe when combined or not? They exist in another plane? They remain awake? They have perception of reality, they have perception of other reality or have no perception at all? If they share control, they should share points and maybe have some kind of limitation to represent what happens when they don't agree. But, if all the players share everything in this unified template, why bother with charging points for this thing? Give it for free! It would be a problem only if some player decided to play someone outside this fusion template.

04-12-2012, 02:40 PM	#18
starslayer Join Date: Dec 2006	Re: Alternate Form: Fusion of many into one Give one party an alternate form; other parties get alternate form as well- but instead of building there own alternate form, they get to add there point pool to the one party. When the transformation takes place ALL of the point pools are totaled, and one much more powerful alternate form with the one party in control comes into being. The other parts are inside it, and if killed they all suffer as per alternate form. If you just want a PC to play a group that turns into an alternate form they can take allies, or an ally group that alternate to the alternate form (IE- the allies 'stop working' and the alternate form 'starts working' when they combine). Duplication alternating to an alternate form also works.