[DF] Black Magic Resistance

[b-dog]

In my gameworld many of the villains are evil wizards who use black magic to power their spells. Magic Resistance should work against these spells because the wizard is using evil mana granted in a form of a pact.On the otherhand I feel that Resitance to Evil powers might also be appropriate. Since they should not add together or have a PC be able to pick the best one I have decided that I will add Magic Resistance and Resistance to Evil Powers together and divide by 2, that way it is the average of the two. The holy warrior and good cleric would likely be less resistant to the spells of an evil wizard than the powers of a demon because they may not have Magic Resistance and thus their resistance bonus is halved. This fits nicely with the concept of the church fearing witches. In any case it makes black magic more unique than just regular magic or evil powers as it is somewhere in between. Black magic uses spells and evil mana but it is still powered by evil so I feel the average of Magic Resistance and Resistance to Evil powers fits well. What do you think? Is thus fair? Thanks.

[Nereidalbel]

As long as it's explained to the players ahead of time and it's applied consistently throughout the campaign, it seems fair enough, as long as the Black Magic has some sort of drawback to offset the bonus it has vs resistance.

[Jerander]

As a character, if I were paying CP for both, I'd expect both to work. If they only work at half power in some situations, then I'd expect a discount (limitation)...

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Jerander

As a character, if I were paying CP for both, I'd expect both to work. If they only work at half power in some situations, then I'd expect a discount (limitation)...

But if you had Magic Resistance 3 and Resistance to Evil Powers 3 then your Resistance to Black Magic is 3. Black Magic is not truly Magic and not truly an Evil Power it is its own power that is in between the two. Besides Magic Resistance does not help with Psionic powers because Psionics is different and Black Magic is different both regular magic and also evil powers.

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by b-dog

In my gameworld many of the villains are evil wizards who use black magic to power their spells. Magic Resistance should work against these spells because the wizard is using evil mana granted in a form of a pact.On the otherhand I feel that Resitance to Evil powers might also be appropriate....

Originally Posted by b-dog

But if you had Magic Resistance 3 and Resistance to Evil Powers 3 then your Resistance to Black Magic is 3. Black Magic is not truly Magic and not truly an Evil Power it is its own power that is in between the two. Besides Magic Resistance does not help with Psionic powers because Psionics is different and Black Magic is different both regular magic and also evil powers.

It seems you've said slightly different things in the two posts. In the first, Magic Resistance works against Black Magic spells *and* Resistance to Evil Powers works against Black Magic spells. So if I've paid for both, I'd expect both to work fully, not average out.

If, on the other hand, Black Magic is not truly Magic and not truly and Evil Power, but rather somewhere in between the two, then averaging would make more sense. In this case, can someone buy Resistance to Black Magic and have it work against either Magic or Evil Powers at half power?

[vierasmarius]

If Black Magic is exclusively the purview of evil NPCs, I suppose it's not a big deal. It would be kind of munchkiny however if players can borrow an energy point to effectively halve their target's resistance.

If it were up to me, I'd have Black Magic be resistible by the higher of Magic Resistance and Resistance to Evil. Similar to how some spells and powers can be resisted by the better of Will or HT.

[Kromm]

I find that a quick mental Venn diagram usually resolves such things. "Evil powers" and "magic" are merely two of dozens of descriptors that could apply simultaneously. Where the "evil powers" set intersects the "magic" set, you have evil powers that are magic and magic that's evil powers; this seems to describe classic black magic perfectly. Somebody with a defense against either should be able to apply it . . . and somebody with defenses against both ought to benefit from them both. Otherwise, piling enough qualifiers onto your attack can make your offensive ability incredible narrow and cheap (it suffers all the limitations of several phenomena, making it less costly), allowing you to outspend somebody who paid out a lot for multiple defenses that did not get the benefit of a "mutually exclusive" limitation. That's clearly abusive and broken.

I generally allow defenses to "stack" if there's any justification for it at all. For instance, if a bad guy is using evil magic to effect mind control, then Resistant to Evil, Magic Resistance, and Mind Shield should all help. Against evil, mind-controlling magicians, it simply makes sense that magic-resistant paragons of good with mental fortresses are more resistant than those who are merely magic-resistant paragons of good, magic-resistant people with mental fortresses, or paragons of good with mental fortresses, never mind individuals who are only paragons of good, magic-resistant people, or people with mental fortresses. Defense in depth is a completely valid character-design strategy which should be specifically effective against an overly specialized attack.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by b-dog

In my gameworld many of the villains are evil wizards who use black magic to power their spells. Magic Resistance should work against these spells because the wizard is using evil mana granted in a form of a pact.On the otherhand I feel that Resitance to Evil powers might also be appropriate. .

" I don't agree. Notice how Magic Resistance doesn't do anything against fireballs because even though the source of the fire is magic the fire itself is just fire? Similarly while the source of an evil wizard's magic may be evil, it is not itself an "evil power" any more than the punches of someone who got super strength through a demonic pact are an "evil power".

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Black magic uses spells and evil mana but it is still powered by evil so I feel the average of Magic Resistance and Resistance to Evil powers fits well. What do you think? Is thus fair? Thanks.

I don't think this is fair at all.

Imagine a player, Fred, who buys Magic Resistance 10.

He can't get healed by Gary the Good because Gary's skill of 18 is reduced to 8.

On the other hand Ben the Bad can zap him because his skill of 18 is only reduced to 13 because Fred doesn't have Resistance to Evil.

Both Ben the Bad and Gary the Good are using magic and spells. Magic Resistance should work the same against both.

As a GM I think that MR and RtE should stack (if the magic itself is actually evil), but at worst I would, as a player, expect to be able to use the best of the two resistances.

If Ben's magic is really effected by RtE I'd give him some benefit, perhaps a -10% modifier to the cost of his Magery for being vulnerable to multiple defenses.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Imagine a player, Fred, who buys Magic Resistance 10.

He can't get healed by Gary the Good because Gary's skill of 18 is reduced to 8.

If Fred has so many points to spend, why didn't he add Switchable or Improved to his Magic Resistance? Either way, yeah, it should protect against the bad guy.