Alternate Forms for Alternate Forms

[Dalren]

Is it viable to have a character with Alternate Forms in which some of the Alternate Forms have their own cosmetic Alternate Forms? For example, if a character had a basic human form and a canine form, could part of the canine form include it's own cosmetic alternate form so that you could transform into either a friendly looking dog or a ferocious looking wolf (both of which would share the same canine stat template)? Would you buy this as an unmodified Alternate Form for the switch between Human and Canine and then buy Alternate Form (Cosmetic Only) as part of the Canine template since you can only use the wolf or dog form appearance while using the Canine template's stats? This would seem to make sense as it would prevent using either of the dog or wolf appearances while in human form.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Dalren

Is it viable to have a character with Alternate Forms in which some of the Alternate Forms have their own cosmetic Alternate Forms? For example, if a character had a basic human form and a canine form, could part of the canine form include it's own cosmetic alternate form so that you could transform into either a friendly looking dog or a ferocious looking wolf (both of which would share the same canine stat template)? Would you buy this as an unmodified Alternate Form for the switch between Human and Canine and then buy Alternate Form (Cosmetic Only) as part of the Canine template since you can only use the wolf or dog form appearance while using the Canine template's stats? This would seem to make sense as it would prevent using either of the dog or wolf appearances while in human form.

No, it is not rules-legal to do that. You would buy Alternate Form (Friendly Looking Dog) and Alternate Form (Ferocious Looking Wolf), paying [15] + [template cost difference; min 0] for the most expensive form and then [15] for any additional forms.

[Walrus]

Wouldn't Elastic Skin suffice?

[Dalren]

Originally Posted by Walrus

Wouldn't Elastic Skin suffice?

Yup. That would probably work. Although at 20 pts, it's more expensive than just buying alternate form at the full 15 points.

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

No, it is not rules-legal to do that. You would buy Alternate Form (Friendly Looking Dog) and Alternate Form (Ferocious Looking Wolf), paying [15] + [template cost difference; min 0] for the most expensive form and then [15] for any additional forms.

That seems a little silly seeing as there's a cosmetic limitation for Alternate Form. I'm not sure why it couldn't be applied to only certain forms.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

You would buy Alternate Form (Friendly Looking Dog) and Alternate Form (Ferocious Looking Wolf), paying [15] + [template cost difference; min 0] for the most expensive form and then [15] for any additional forms.

This is the right way if you can change into all three forms regardless of form. If you have to go from human->wolf->friendly dog, somewhere in Powers they give the limitation for having to jump more hoops. It's especially appropriate if wolf and dog can change form instantly.

EDIT: Oh, and slap on Cosmetic onto dog form.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Dalren

That seems a little silly seeing as there's a cosmetic limitation for Alternate Form. I'm not sure why it couldn't be applied to only certain forms.

The racial template Alternate Form replaces your base racial template with cannot contain Alternate Form. Your proposed character has three racial templates available to it; Human, Ferocious Looking Wolf and Friendly Looking Dog. If you want multiple Alternate Forms, you buy multiple Alternate Forms.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

This is the right way if you can change into all three forms regardless of form. If you have to go from human->wolf->friendly dog, somewhere in Powers they give the limitation for having to jump more hoops. It's especially appropriate if wolf and dog can change form instantly.

Required Intermediate Form is found on (GURPS Fantasy, pg 131), and doesn't appear to be what the poster is discussing.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

EDIT: Oh, and slap on Cosmetic onto dog form.

Friendly Looking Dog isn't Cosmetic. It has a different racial template than the base form and so can't be Cosmetic. Cosmetic is only permitted if the base racial template isn't changed.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

The racial template Alternate Form replaces your base racial template with cannot contain Alternate Form. Your proposed character has three racial templates available to it; Human, Ferocious Looking Wolf and Friendly Looking Dog. If you want multiple Alternate Forms, you buy multiple Alternate Forms.

Or you buy Shapeshifting (Dogs Only), which will let you turn into any dog you want. Or possibly Shapeshifting (Dogs Only, Single Template).

Eyeballing point values: being able to use a single template (your own) makes shapeshifting Cosmetic (-50%). If instead you could only use a single template, but it's a different template, that's probably (-35%) -- i.e. we add 15 points for alternate form. Canines Only limits the Cosmetic effect further, probably another -10-20%.

[Dalren]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Required Intermediate Form is found on (GURPS Fantasy, pg 131), and doesn't appear to be what the poster is discussing.

Friendly Looking Dog isn't Cosmetic. It has a different racial template than the base form and so can't be Cosmetic. Cosmetic is only permitted if the base racial template isn't changed.

Required Intermediate Form is approaching what I'm looking for it, but it's not quite it. I should clarify. The character I'm working with is a druid with multiple animal forms (Jaguar, Dog, Bear, Shark, Insect Swarm) all bought using the standard Alternate Form rules. 15 + (90% of difference between templates) for the strongest, then a flat 15 for each of the others. What I'm looking for is a simple cosmetic change that is only available to the dog form. Regardless of whether the character looks like a wolf or a large domesticated dog, it's using the same racial template. Ideally it would be able to go from Human (or any of the other forms) into either of the canine forms. I just figured there would be a limitation of some sort since the two forms are statistically identical.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Dalren

Required Intermediate Form is approaching what I'm looking for it, but it's not quite it. I should clarify. The character I'm working with is a druid with multiple animal forms (Jaguar, Dog, Bear, Shark, Insect Swarm) all bought using the standard Alternate Form rules. 15 + (90% of difference between templates) for the strongest, then a flat 15 for each of the others. What I'm looking for is a simple cosmetic change that is only available to the dog form. Regardless of whether the character looks like a wolf or a large domesticated dog, it's using the same racial template. Ideally it would be able to go from Human (or any of the other forms) into either of the canine forms. I just figured there would be a limitation of some sort since the two forms are statistically identical.

Add the Elastic Skin advantage to the canine alternate template, potentially with a limitation to restrict it to a single other appearance?