[Dungeon Saints] Binding, Area Effect and Persistent: Am I reading this right?

[Kuroshima]

One of my players asked me for an ability that targeted an area of ground, and made skeletal hands rise from the ground, and grasp the ankles of those who are in the area. My first idea became to make it as a Binding with Area Effect and Persistent. However, this poses some interesting questions:

• Binding with Area Effect and Persistent seems very powerful to me: Those hit can only dodge and drop to exit the area, and with enough area effect, that's simply not possible. Afterwards, if they want to free themselves, they need to win a contest against the ST of the binding. Doind so takes one second, and I assume allows one step (Assuming Ready Maneuver). However, as the binding is persistent, they would be hit again unless that step moves them out of the area, unless they can now dodge and drop out of it, right?
• Those that don't free themselves and thus remain in the area would be hit again right? meaning that it would add "more hands" and increase the ST of the binding by 1. This can be removed with One Shot.
• By default Binding lasts until the victin gets frees itself or gets freed. Persistent lasts 10 seconds. This means that that after 10 seconds, the hands stop searching for new targets, but the ones currently grasped remain grasped right?
• Would it be fair to put Maximum Duration on the binding, so that victims get freed after a set amount of time?
• Finally, a binding of ST 1 would technically be able to impede an ST 1000 godling. I remember a Krommpost that said something akin to what happens when an ST 1 critter grapples an ST 1000 creature: if the ST1 critter is light enough, it only counts as encumbrance.

Here's the actual ability that I'm considering for the character (an evil saint, and these are Evil prayers, obviously)

MIRACULOUS POWERS

Minimum Reaction: Very Good

Graps of the Dead
Learned Prerequisite: Divine Favor 12.
Learned Prayer Cost: 22 points.
The hands of the dead rise through the earth, and grapple anyone they find! The paragon must designate an area within 20 yards, the hands will rise from the ground in that area for 30 seconds, trapping anyone who steps in it.Victims are grappled, can not take Move, Change Posture or Concentrate maneuvers or change facing, and suffer -4 DX. Those already present in the area and close enough to the border can try to dodge and drop, to try to exit it. Those that are trapped must free themselves by either destroying the hands currently holding them (DR8) as an attack that imposes a -4 penalty to hit, and dealing enough damage in a single turn to destroy them (HP 26), or by winning a quick contest of the best of their ST or their Escape skill, against the ST of the hands (26) as a Ready maneuver. Even if they escape, they're limited to making a single step. If this doesn't move them out of the area, they will be trapped again next turn. Their only defense is again to dodge and drop. You can only have a single Grasps of the Dead active at the same time, and must wait until the original expires before calling a new one..

Statistics: Binding 26 (Area Effect, 4 yards, +100%; Cosmic, No Dice Roll Required, +100%; Divine, -10%; Environemental, the victim must be touching the ground, -20%; Extended Duration, 3× duration, +20%; Maximum Duration, 30s, -75%; Persistent, +40%; One Shot, -10%; Reduced Range, Range Divisor 5, -20%; Takes Recharge, 30 seconds, -20%) [107].

WORLD-SHAKING MIRACLES

Minimum Reaction: Excellent

Graps of the Dead (Enhanced)
Learned Prerequisite: Divine Favor 16.
Learned Prayer Cost: 40 points.
As Grasp of the Dead, but the hands rise over an 8 yard radius area, have ST 32, will not target the paragon or his allies, and those caught are pinned and on subsequent turns, constricted. Victims can only try to escape with ST (not Escape skill), and can only try to do so every 10 seconds. On a critical failure on their ST roll, they are so firmly grasped that they must wait for the effect to disipate, or get their companions to free them. Every subsequent turn after being caught, roll, on the Paragon's turn, a quick contest of between the hands ST (32) and the best of each victim's ST or HT. If the hands win, they inflict damage equal to their margin of victory.
Statistics: Binding 32 (Area Effect, 8 yards, +150%; Constricting, +75%; Cosmic, No Dice Roll Required, +100%; Divine, -10%; Engulfing, +60%; Environemental, the victim must be touching the ground, -20%; Extended Duration, 3× duration, +20%; Maximum Duration, 30s, -75%; Persistent, +40%; One Shot, -10%; Reduced Range, Range Divisor 5, -20%; Selective Area, +20%; Takes Recharge, 30 seconds, -20%) [199].

[PseudoFenton]

Isn't there also a way to damage binding to reduce its duration/ST? I can't recall where I've seen it but it'd logically make sense than you could stomp/smash the grasping hands away rather than wait for it to end.

Also it'd make sense that you'd be held more firmly/harder to escape if you fellover/were prone. Is there a way of doing a linked attack/a second or attack which only applies to prone targets and has greater ST to model this?

Otherwise I really like it, very classic attack! Sure to be the opening salvo of every arch-necromancer and epic evil cleric/warrior so they can gloat and monologue before finishing off their foes like fish in a barrel. >=D

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by PseudoFenton

Isn't there also a way to damage binding to reduce its duration/ST? I can't recall where I've seen it but it'd logically make sense than you could stomp/smash the grasping hands away rather than wait for it to end.

Also it'd make sense that you'd be held more firmly/harder to escape if you fellover/were prone. Is there a way of doing a linked attack/a second or attack which only applies to prone targets and has greater ST to model this?

Otherwise I really like it, very classic attack! Sure to be the opening salvo of every arch-necromancer and epic evil cleric/warrior so they can gloat and monologue before finishing off their foes like fish in a barrel. >=D

Binding can be attacked, true. It has DR equal to ST/3, and each point of damage past that reduces Binding ST by 1. However, the way I read it, the target would be hit every turn he remains in the binding, thus renewing this ST

As for it being stronger against downed enemies, you could simply add extra levels with "Only on downed enemies", or you could say that that effect is what makes the enhanced version enhanced.

EDIT: You could introduce a single target version, make the 4 yard area the enhanced version, and the 8 yard are the doubly enhanced version. The base version would be as follows:

Graps of the Dead
Learned Prerequisite: Divine Favor 7.
Learned Prayer Cost: 6 points.
The hands of the dead rise through the earth! The paragon must designate a target within 20 yards, the hands will rise from the ground and grapple him for 30 seconds, until he frees himself, or is freed by an ally. The victim is grappled, can not take Move, Change Posture or Concentrate maneuvers or change facing, and suffer -4 DX. In order to free himself, the victim can either destroy the hands currently holding him (DR8) as an attack that imposes a -4 penalty to hit, and dealing enough damage to destroy them (HP 26, each point of HP lost reduces ST by 1), or by winning a quick contest of the best of his or her ST or Escape skill, against the ST of the hands (26) as a Ready maneuver. You can only have a single Grasps of the Dead active at the same time, and must wait until the original expires before calling a new one.

Statistics: Binding 26 (Cosmic, No Dice Roll Required, +100%; Divine, -10%; Environemental, the victim must be touching the ground, -20%;Maximum Duration, 30s, -75%; One Shot, -10%; Reduced Range, Range Divisor 5, -20%; Takes Recharge, 30 seconds, -20%) [29].

[PseudoFenton]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Binding can be attacked, true. It has DR equal to ST/3, and each point of damage past that reduces Binding ST by 1. However, the way I read it, the target would be hit every turn he remains in the binding, thus renewing this ST

Ah that might be what I'm remembering, of cause it'd still make sense to be able to have friends smite the area or clear a path of escape by smashing the hands to bits. Of cause I guess new hands could always sprout out of the ground the replace them if it remains as it is, that'd be even more scary in honesty!

As for it being stronger against downed enemies, you could simply add extra levels with "Only on downed enemies", or you could say that that effect is what makes the enhanced version enhanced.

Yes, this was pretty much what I was suggesting. Although having one which doesn't just hold you in place but pulls you down too would be quite freaky and prevents you from doing other things.

An extra enhanced version (or a slightly differing ability, one that goes trip->drag to the ground->this one, perhaps) could even pull you into the ground itself, effectively casting entomb on you if you fail to escape after x seconds.
Not that I'd no how to go about statting that one just now... probably some sort of cyclic malediction which has a quick content of effective ST so that the binding reduced you're chances the more you were snagged up? *Shrug*

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Graps of the Dead

Ah very cool, this also allows you to actually have access to the ability much sooner, which is never a bad thing!

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by PseudoFenton

Yes, this was pretty much what I was suggesting. Although having one which doesn't just hold you in place but pulls you down too would be quite freaky and prevents you from doing other things.

An extra enhanced version (or a slightly differing ability, one that goes trip->drag to the ground->this one, perhaps) could even pull you into the ground itself, effectively casting entomb on you if you fail to escape after x seconds.

The Enhanced version PINS you, you're on the ground, pinned by the hands, and they start constricting you.

[PseudoFenton]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

The Enhanced version PINS you, you're on the ground, pinned by the hands, and they start constricting you.

Yeah I saw the Engulfing part but overlooked the description which said "pinned" and just assumed there were lots of larger grasping hands instead.
I didn't know a binding attack could just pin you, and I didn't see anything in the mechanics which would suggest that it did. I can see how it makes sense in this context, but I'd have thought you need something else to actually change the posture as part of the attack.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by PseudoFenton

Yeah I saw the Engulfing part but overlooked the description which said "pinned" and just assumed there were lots of larger grasping hands instead.
I didn't know a binding attack could just pin you, and I didn't see anything in the mechanics which would suggest that it did. I can see how it makes sense in this context, but I'd have thought you need something else to actually change the posture as part of the attack.

Engulfing pins you. The special effects are that, special xD

[Bruno]

THe nice thing is you just have to scrape off the special effects and this is a great power for Druids/Saints of Plants/nature/etc. Replace grasping hands with grasping roots or vines or even grasses (for lower powered Binds) et voilla!

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Bruno

THe nice thing is you just have to scrape off the special effects and this is a great power for Druids/Saints of Plants/nature/etc. Replace grasping hands with grasping roots or vines or even grasses (for lower powered Binds) et voilla!

That's part of the idea, in fact. Still, I prefer keeping this an evil-themed prayer. Now, I would not object to an alternate version called Grasping Roots. I see Good using non-physical means of doing the same though, with Affliction (Paralysis) representing immobilizing the targets with remorse over their "sins".