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Old 10-03-2020, 09:44 AM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

By default, yes, but I find that it balances RPM nicely if quirks acquired during the gathering rolls apply immediately (and for the desired duration of the ritual), whether or not they actually cast the spell. The change prevents players from abusing the system and encourages them to focus on shorter term rituals over longer term rituals. The first quirk preventing Luck from applying to that performance of that ritual functions as a warning to players not to push their luck (so to speak), as things could go badly for them if they attempt to finish the ritual.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:30 AM   #22
ericthered
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

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Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
With RPM I find that casters overshadow others to the point of, no one wanting to play anything else.
In many of my monster hunters games, I offer three ways to build a character:

1) take a 400 point template and add a 200 point template from Sidekicks to it (total of 600 points)
2) build a 500 point character without using templates
3) build a 400 point character with access to RPM

I find the characters end up pretty balanced that way. The casters really don't feel like they are behind, but they don't feel like they're ahead either.
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Old 10-04-2020, 09:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
In many of my monster hunters games, I offer three ways to build a character:

1) take a 400 point template and add a 200 point template from Sidekicks to it (total of 600 points)
2) build a 500 point character without using templates
3) build a 400 point character with access to RPM

I find the characters end up pretty balanced that way. The casters really don't feel like they are behind, but they don't feel like they're ahead either.
That definitely makes it sound like RPM is unbalanced if it effectively requires a 100-200pt UB.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

Then there's always "Delusion (I can do magic)." That system really rewards subtlety. You can't throw fireballs or shapeshift, but you can create vague spells that allow you to claim credit for statistically insignificant moments of luck.

It works well in a setting featuring the healing rules of "Delusion (Homeopathy works)."
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

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Then there's always "Delusion (I can do magic)." That system really rewards subtlety. You can't throw fireballs or shapeshift, but you can create vague spells that allow you to claim credit for statistically insignificant moments of luck.

It works well in a setting featuring the healing rules of "Delusion (Homeopathy works)."
In a level 1 adventure in That Other Game the boss was this feared wizard with that Delusion. We all laughed when he would yell out "Lightning Bolt!" and "Telekinesis!". We stopped laughing when he cast Earthquake with this foot-based ritual.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:24 AM   #26
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

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Then there's always "Delusion (I can do magic)." That system really rewards subtlety. You can't throw fireballs or shapeshift, but you can create vague spells that allow you to claim credit for statistically insignificant moments of luck.
I have that in a VtM game. I have already "fooled" all the other characters that I'm a powerful, but subtle, magician.
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Old 10-05-2020, 05:57 AM   #27
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

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That definitely makes it sound like RPM is unbalanced if it effectively requires a 100-200pt UB.
Well, its not a flat number. RPM's power is roughly equal to the exponential of the energy you can gather. That's actually not that uncommon in gurps. But the ammount of energy you can gather goes up with skill squared, roughly, and it is ideally suited to take advantage of very high skill. Skill 14 doesn't accomplish much at all (10 energy if playing it safe, 25 if pushing your luck), skill 17 (65 energy at the first quirk is pretty typical) is pretty strong, and skill 20 is ridiculously good (150 energy before the first quirk). So at low levels, RPM is actually pretty fair, but higher and higher skill pulls away as a better and better option.
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Old 10-05-2020, 07:23 AM   #28
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

RPM is not that broken, especially when any opponent worth their salt also has RPM and is doing the exact same thing (but usually better). I will usually give the Big Bad and/or the Dragon extensive grimoire libraries. In one game, I had a Big Bad with Multimillionaire 2, so they had 100 +10 grimoires for their own use, and they lent their Dragon 100 +6 grimoires.
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Old 10-05-2020, 07:55 AM   #29
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

It's still pretty broken when the RPM user can do everything the other people can do, better, and with fewer points. So.
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:20 AM   #30
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Default Re: What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

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Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Then there's always "Delusion (I can do magic)." That system really rewards subtlety. You can't throw fireballs or shapeshift, but you can create vague spells that allow you to claim credit for statistically insignificant moments of luck.

It works well in a setting featuring the healing rules of "Delusion (Homeopathy works)."
What is remarkable is how this method can lead to the Wealth advantage, especially if joined with Fast-Talk and perhaps a quirk level Unscrupulous. I would suggest throwing in Affliction: Gullibility, but evidence strongly implies that this would be redundant.

---

One thing I have considered is running a game with RPM, but where new rituals cannot be improvised on the fly, but must be developed during down-time, perhaps using rules based on inventing (but probably with the costs greatly reduced versus the inventing rules). This would have the advantages of minimizing the game interruption of adjudicating new rituals, of forcing wizards to spend countless hours researching arcane lore (which all the literature suggests they should, but which most rule-sets do little to encourage them to do), and of somewhat toning down the power level if RPM is considered overpowered. Thoughts?
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Last edited by ravenfish; 10-05-2020 at 09:26 AM.
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