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Old 08-03-2009, 06:00 AM   #1
Ragitsu
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Default H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMj73QKr7oI

This is probably heavily slanted in H&K's favor, but will the 4.6mm round fired by the H&K MP7A1 out of High-Tech defeat the helmet DR of the modern day ballisic helmet also out of High-Tech?
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:22 AM   #2
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMj73QKr7oI

This is probably heavily slanted in H&K's favor, but will the 4.6mm round fired by the H&K MP7A1 out of High-Tech defeat the helmet DR of the modern day ballisic helmet also out of High-Tech?
Yes. Helmet has 12 DR, and the gun does an average of 15 damage before damage multipliers are taken into account.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

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Yes. Helmet has 12 DR, and the gun does an average of 15 damage before damage multipliers are taken into account.
Moreover, helmets are primarily designed to stop the things mostly likely to cause injuries to the head -- shrapnel, as well as the rocks and splinters that get kicked up when an explosive charge goes off nearby. They're not made to stop bullets. The odds of injury from getting shot anywhere (much less the head) are much smaller than the chance of injury from explosives (artillery, mortars, IEDs, etc.).

A quarter-pound rock thrown up by a mortar that nails you in the chest is gonna hurt, but you'll mostly swear a lot, may holler for a medic, but will probably walk it off. That same rock to the noggin, on the other hand, could put you down and out for a long time.
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Last edited by tshiggins; 08-03-2009 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

I take it you didn't buy into the marketing strategy either ;-)?
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

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I take it you didn't buy into the marketing strategy either ;-)?
Within it's limited niche the HK is probably a better weapon than the P90 but the "PDW" concept is almost certainly a failure.

You're just not going to issue one of these to everyone who isn't carrying a bigger weapon. It's a specialist's weapon rather than a general purpose one.

You give it to Spec Ops who need an ultra-compact weapon with good AP qualities and can still manage to put multiple shots into the vitals. You don't give it to low skill users so they can spray and pray.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
You give it to Spec Ops who need an ultra-compact weapon with good AP qualities and can still manage to put multiple shots into the vitals. You don't give it to low skill users so they can spray and pray.
I've seen PDWs issued to SWAT teams up here in Canada. I saw a newspaper article about a SWAT action in Montreal and in the photo all the cops had P90s.
I can't see it being issued to mainline troops or the like, although I thought I remember that Saudi Arabia bought a big pile of them for its military. (Then again they are filthy rich and can probably afford it.)
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Within it's limited niche the HK is probably a better weapon than the P90 but the "PDW" concept is almost certainly a failure.

You're just not going to issue one of these to everyone who isn't carrying a bigger weapon. It's a specialist's weapon rather than a general purpose one.
I agree it is a niche weapon.

Another possible niche is that of downed aircrew. If you can't manage the bulk of a M4, a PDW lets you at least do some damage to an infantryman in body armor, at some range.
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Old 08-04-2009, 01:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

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Originally Posted by nick012000 View Post
Yes. Helmet has 12 DR, and the gun does an average of 15 damage before damage multipliers are taken into account.
The helmet shown is a PASGT style fragmentation helmet, which should have DR 5 or so . . . going in and out means at least DR 10 to overcome. At an average of 15 points (4d+1), the MP7A1 will go cleanly through, just as depicted, and have 5 points left to do damage -- which due to its pi- modifier won't be much unless you hit the skull or vitals, just like Fackler and other wound ballistics experts say.

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Old 08-04-2009, 01:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

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The helmet shown is a PASGT style fragmentation helmet, which should have DR 5 or so
Hey HANS.

Would you happen to have links or know examples of the DR 12 helmet?
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: H&K MP7A1 versus Ballistic Helmet [High-Tech]

DR5 helmet explains a lot - if you want the right answers ask the experts:)
I sincerely hope these guys have the DR12 version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-VjU...eature=channel
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