Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-05-2012, 01:29 PM   #31
vierasmarius
 
vierasmarius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Perhaps the reason why ER is not normally given a power modifier (though it's almost always restricted to fueling a single power group) is that there don't tend to be things that block or remove the ER itself. For example, a wizard doesn't have his ER (Magic) drained by walking into a No Mana Zone, and ER (Psi) isn't a valid target for an Anti-Psi's Neutralize. There could be an exception to this (a mana pool that varies by local mana level, for example) in which case a power modifier might be appropriate. I'd tend to avoid this however, since it mostly adds complexity without much gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire View Post
Can you quote anything which would make it an invalid limitation? I just searched through my books (pdfs) and I'm not finding anything that says its' invalid. The closest I'm finding is in Supers where its' talking about a gadget's energy reserve used to power the gadget's advantages.
There are several examples of ER (mostly in DF, but mentioned in Thaumatology and elsewhere) that give it a power type (ie Magical, Psi, Divine, etc) but no discount.
vierasmarius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 01:32 PM   #32
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
I know, but I'm not seeing any published examples of a Power Modifier being valid on ER (Magical), can you quote anything which would make it a valid limitation?
I dont see any examples from Powers, Supers, or DF using a magical PM for ER.
On the other hand it is invulnerable to attacks and if you do add the Pm your making it more vulnerable.
If you would allow a PM (electrical) on an ER then I think you should allow magical as well. However you do need to hit them with counter powers to be fair.
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 01:39 PM   #33
Sunrunners_Fire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
There are several examples of ER (mostly in DF, but mentioned in Thaumatology and elsewhere) that give it a power type (ie Magical, Psi, Divine, etc) but no discount.
All ER defines which power source can consume it. I'm not seeing any published ER with a Power Modifier, but I'm also not seeing anything that says an ER can't take a Power Modifier.

Default behavior is "if its' not prohibited, its' allowed". I'm not seeing a prohibition anywhere.



* Subject to GM review and approval but everything has that requirement, and as such its' not especially notable.
Sunrunners_Fire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 01:46 PM   #34
vierasmarius
 
vierasmarius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire View Post
All ER defines which power source can consume it. I'm not seeing any published ER with a Power Modifier, but I'm also not seeing anything that says an ER can't take a Power Modifier.

Default behavior is "if its' not prohibited, its' allowed". I'm not seeing a prohibition anywhere.
You're right, there's no problem in allowing it. People just need to recognize that ER already includes a restriction to a single power type, so a PM must add additional limitations on top of that. I think Electrical is actually a good example; if the character is subjected to an EMP attack his ER could be drained to zero, and surging attacks could temporarily overload and disable it. This is on top of the normal characteristics of ER - it can only be used to power (in this case) the character's cybernetics, it regenerates alongside his FP, it's insulated from FP-draining attacks and hazards, etc.
vierasmarius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #35
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
Ze'Manel Cunha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire View Post
Can you quote anything which would make it an invalid limitation? I just searched through my books (pdfs) and I'm not finding anything that says its' invalid. The closest I'm finding is in Supers where its' talking about a gadget's energy reserve used to power the gadget's advantages.
I personally use ERs quite a bit in my games, I don't see how I'd justify giving a price break for a PM on something which already has a delineated power source.

After all, if it isn't a real limitation, it isn't worth anything...

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, I'm just not seeing it right now.
Ze'Manel Cunha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:39 PM   #36
Snaps
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Provo, UT
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

I don't really understand why this wouldn't be considered a limitation.

If you have 100 ER with PM: Magic, go down to say 10 energy, then get stuck in a No Magic area for a few days, when you get out you still only have 10 energy. If you don't have PM: Magic, then you'd regenerate your ER normally while in the No Magic area, when you got out you be at full power.

In fact, you could even make an argument that even though you are in a no magic area, since you have a 100 ER without the PM: Magic, you could still use that 100 energy to do spells with.

I belive Cadsuane has a belt that does just this in the Wheel of Time books. There is a city where magic doesn't work, but it allows her to store a limited supply of saidin (magic) in her belt to use while inside the no magic area.
Snaps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #37
Alden Loveshade
 
Alden Loveshade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Hmm, looks like Earth, circa CE 2020+
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
Double check your numbers... that was talking about Regeneration used to refill the ER not the ER... hence why we were talking about [150] vs [75] or [30]
OK I did. Regeneration (only Energy Reserve, Magical) -10% AND Magical -10% sounds to me like getting 10% for free.
__________________
Online interview of myself and one of my awaiting-publication GURPS Fantasy Folk: Elves characters
Exchange Students (fantasy/horror/science fiction anthology including my story set in my GURPS galaxy)
Alden Loveshade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:11 PM   #38
Alden Loveshade
 
Alden Loveshade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Hmm, looks like Earth, circa CE 2020+
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
I don't really understand why this wouldn't be considered a limitation.

If you have 100 ER with PM: Magic, go down to say 10 energy, then get stuck in a No Magic area for a few days, when you get out you still only have 10 energy. If you don't have PM: Magic, then you'd regenerate your ER normally while in the No Magic area, when you got out you be at full power....
That sounds like a very minor limitation and I personally don't see it being worth 10%. Your mage with 100 ER is an extreme example, and would be hindered in relative terms to a much greater degree than the vast majority of mages.

And yet he can do anything he wants and get back that ER relatively quickly, or use Recover Energy and have that ER back even more quickly. And in most campaigns getting stuck in a no mana area for several days and then running into something where you need massive ER in a hurry is a much rarer situation than getting tired from combat, exertion, lack of sleep, etc. Not being able to recover ER in a no mana area doesn't sound like nearly the same limitation as "I've got lots of ER but little Fatigue."

For a more direct comparison, consider not recovering ER in a no mana area to not being able to regain fatigue....
__________________
Online interview of myself and one of my awaiting-publication GURPS Fantasy Folk: Elves characters
Exchange Students (fantasy/horror/science fiction anthology including my story set in my GURPS galaxy)
Alden Loveshade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:47 PM   #39
Sunrunners_Fire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden_Loveshade View Post
That sounds like a very minor limitation and I personally don't see it being worth 10%. Your mage with 100 ER is an extreme example, and would be hindered in relative terms to a much greater degree than the vast majority of mages.

And yet he can do anything he wants and get back that ER relatively quickly, or use Recover Energy and have that ER back even more quickly. And in most campaigns getting stuck in a no mana area for several days and then running into something where you need massive ER in a hurry is a much rarer situation than getting tired from combat, exertion, lack of sleep, etc. Not being able to recover ER in a no mana area doesn't sound like nearly the same limitation as "I've got lots of ER but little Fatigue."

For a more direct comparison, consider not recovering ER in a no mana area to not being able to regain fatigue....
Ambient energies blocked by Esoteric or Supernatural item/condition, -5%, is RAW as of (GURPS Powers, pg 24). Likewise, Countermeasures: Special advantages or skills, -5% is also RAW as of (GURPS Powers, pg 20). Please show me where it is published that these limitations are prohibited for the Energy Reserve advantage and/or the Extra Fatigue advantage? I've looked. I can't find anything RAW that prohibits it.

Now, if you're saying that you wouldn't allow it in your campaigns? Thats' fine. Far be it from me to be down on anyone using house-rules (I use enough of them myself!) ... but then we are talking house-rules and not RAW; its' nice to specify which one you're talking about so as to avoid confusing other people.
Sunrunners_Fire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:51 PM   #40
Gold & Appel Inc
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: One Mile Up
Default Re: FP/ER Regeneration And Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
In fact, you could even make an argument that even though you are in a no magic area, since you have a 100 ER without the PM: Magic, you could still use that 100 energy to do spells with.

I belive Cadsuane has a belt that does just this in the Wheel of Time books. There is a city where magic doesn't work, but it allows her to store a limited supply of saidin (magic) in her belt to use while inside the no magic area.
That example sounds a lot more like Mana Enhancer with reloadable Limited Uses than anything that could be sanely attributed to RAW ER by itself to me. ER would cost way, way more if it did that.
Gold & Appel Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
magic, regeneration

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.