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Old 10-31-2017, 09:22 PM   #11
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

ATR is difficult to justify under the majority of circumstances. Extra Attack is usually a lot cheaper for the effects that the majority of players are going to use it for (like combat). Of course, ATR (Costs HP, 8 HP, -80%) would only cost 20 points per level, so you could potentially have ATR 10 for only 200 points. Of course, you would spend 8 HP to activate that power and then 4 HP per minute to maintain the power, but you would experience 660 subjective turns during the time that you spent 8 HP.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
ATR is difficult to justify under the majority of circumstances. Extra Attack is usually a lot cheaper for the effects that the majority of players are going to use it for (like combat). Of course, ATR (Costs HP, 8 HP, -80%) would only cost 20 points per level, so you could potentially have ATR 10 for only 200 points. Of course, you would spend 8 HP to activate that power and then 4 HP per minute to maintain the power, but you would experience 660 subjective turns during the time that you spent 8 HP.
hmmm, this is true, So as a fix make it so that they pay every second instead of per min. That is how I would rule it. As long as they continue to pay every second they have ATR +n, once they stop paying they lose it.

You can also use variable cost HP for variable levels of ATR.

ATR 10 (cost HP variable, 10, -50%; PM, -10%) [400]

It cost 1 HP to use 1 level of ATR, 2 for ATR 2 etc.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

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Originally Posted by Kfireblade View Post
Would you guys allow a character who has extreme regeneration to take costs HP as modifiers on advantages? Got a player who wants to but I'm not to sure I'm ok with that. I mean, Its a high point value game so they should be very powerful but this seems like a broken combination to me, especially when he also has ATR. take an advantage for -80% because each use cost 8 hp, use it your first turn, then heal all the damage up your second turn....
Yes, but only if I'd allow a player to take Extreme FP regeneration, buy lots of extra FP, and use that to really knock the cost off of powers. The two traits are variations of each other, and the FP version is pretty much tailor made for fueling powers. So I don't see a problem with it, in the right game, and if he has the proper fluff for it.
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Old 11-01-2017, 04:03 PM   #14
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

I think that Costs FP would be a much better limitation for Extreme Regeneration (as long as it does not have FP regeneration capabilities). It would be fine to spend 8 FP to regenerate 10 HP in a second, and it would only cost 30 points. You could have it as an alternate ability for a Healing power, which would mean that it would only cost 6 points.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:52 PM   #15
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

I'd allow it for togglable abilities, with the caveat that the HP spent on that ability does not regenerate until the ability is turned off. As for HP spent on instant effects like Innate Attack, that HP doesn't recover until the start of your next turn. In other words, you're still making yourself slightly easier to bring down to 0 HP and being forced into a consciousness check.
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Old 11-02-2017, 04:23 AM   #16
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

I think that before making conclusions about HP regeneration and its 'repurposing' to regenerating HP Cost-related loss of HP, one needs to address the elephant in the room.

Specifically, the Extreme Regeneration with either Fatigue Recovery +100% or Fatigue Recovery Only -0%, which grants 10 FP per second.

Why am I bringing this up?
Because unlike in the case with HP regeneration, there can be absolutely no doubt that the trait is intended to recover the FP that has been spent on powering abilities: there's absolutely no way to lose FP to mundane exertion at a rate that makes Extreme Regeneration worthwhile. Furthermore, according to Powers 119,
Quote:
Originally Posted by P119
Regeneration can have “ER Recovery” or “ER Only” for the
price of “Fatigue Recovery” or “Fatigue Only,”
which means that Powers 'okays' such usage not only implicitly, but also explicitly.

And costing HP is more disadvantageous than costing FP in that it adds a bigger risk of being taken or outright killed due to spending them (as compared to spending FP).

----

So what the question really boils down to is whether one considers the Costs {Some_Pool} Points is a fair limitation in general (and thus whether it requires a houseruled change like RPK's or some other), and whether Regeneration levels are fairly balanced in general.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
I think that before making conclusions about HP regeneration and its 'repurposing' to regenerating HP Cost-related loss of HP, one needs to address the elephant in the room.

Specifically, the Extreme Regeneration with either Fatigue Recovery +100% or Fatigue Recovery Only -0%, which grants 10 FP per second.

Why am I bringing this up?
Because unlike in the case with HP regeneration, there can be absolutely no doubt that the trait is intended to recover the FP that has been spent on powering abilities: there's absolutely no way to lose FP to mundane exertion at a rate that makes Extreme Regeneration worthwhile. Furthermore, according to Powers 119,

which means that Powers 'okays' such usage not only implicitly, but also explicitly.

And costing HP is more disadvantageous than costing FP in that it adds a bigger risk of being taken or outright killed due to spending them (as compared to spending FP).

----

So what the question really boils down to is whether one considers the Costs {Some_Pool} Points is a fair limitation in general (and thus whether it requires a houseruled change like RPK's or some other), and whether Regeneration levels are fairly balanced in general.
Ya, that is true actually. While cost HP is -10% per instead of -5% like FP it dose cause shock and effectively cut down the amount of HP you are regenerating which if you are taking or have taken other damage is a issue.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:33 AM   #18
Kfireblade
 
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Subjective seconds:


Bolding is mine.

There is a difference between the definitions of subjective and objective.

Yes he perceives himself as living "twice as fast", but that doesn't necessarily mean he is living twice as fast.

Unless that is your ruling, in which case poisons are worse for him, he ages a bit faster, takes environmental damage each turn, etc. If that's what you want, it does balance out just fine.
That's how I have always interpreted ATR, also meaning that at ATR 1 they have to eat 6 times a day and sleep twice. (Or, basically have two 12 hour days in every day)
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:37 AM   #19
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kfireblade View Post
Ya, that is true actually. While cost HP is -10% per instead of -5% like FP it dose cause shock and effectively cut down the amount of HP you are regenerating which if you are taking or have taken other damage is a issue.
I must admit I don't remember a ruling one way or another about whether (the Limitation version of) Costs HP causes Shock. I do recall that spending HP on Basic Set Magic has a non-shock but shock-like effect:
Quote:
Originally Posted by B237
You are at -1 on your spell roll per HP
used. This is instead of the usual shock
penalty for injury, and High Pain
Threshold has no effect.
But do note that it's a rule that only applies specifically to spells, and not to other rolls, and isn't shock and doesn't follow any other shock rules.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:58 AM   #20
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Default Re: Extreme Regeneration and Costs HP

I have a ruling that HP lost to "cost HP" cannot be recovered by heal/healing spells/regeneration.

But the HP lost to using too many FP can be recovered normally.

The combination seems to work well enough.
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