[Magic/Powers] Can you use Blink to escape a grapple?

[mlangsdorf]

I'd certainly let a grappler decide if they were going to go along with a teleporter. I wouldn't force them. You're generally allowed to end a grapple as a free action if you want to retreat, and I'd treat not wanting to be teleported as the same kind of thing.

[Mark Skarr]

Personally, I think it's a flaw in the rules. You should be able to attempt to concentrate whenever you want, just with penalties.

Teleportation is a time-honored and genre-appropriate method for escaping grappling in Supers. It's a base 100-point power and should be worth 100 points of unfairness against someone who doesn't have it.

Additionally "you can carry" is grammatically different from "you must carry." So, carrying something when warping is always optional, unless you take a nuisance effect to the contrary or the GM rules differently in specific situations. I would strongly argue against your desire to hold onto me matters one whit to a power I control.

Personally, I just use "Faster Concentration" from Psionic Powers to iron out the wrinkles. Sure that's for Jumper, but the two powers, functionally, do the same thing. One just moves you through space, and the other through time or dimensions.

To be fair, Warp doesn't say anywhere that you must take a concentrate maneuver, only preparation. The book says:

Originally Posted by Characters, pg 98

Make an IQ roll to activate your ability, modified as follows:

There is no mention of the Maneuver required to activate it, in the advantage. Powers spells it out a little bit more:

Originally Posted by Powers, pg 89

Always spell out what goes on during the extra preparation time to reduce penalties: elaborate rituals, psychic visualization, precise computation of target coordinates, etc.

So, we may all be reading it wrong. You may be able to use both Warp and Blink, RAW, to escape from grappling.
Reading more into it . . .

Originally Posted by Characters, pg 34

Most other advantages are switchable: you can turn them off and on at will. To do so requires a one-second Ready maneuver, with activation or deactivation occurring as soon as you execute the maneuver. Unlike certain skills and magic spells, this does not require concentration; switching an advantage is second nature, and cannot be “interrupted.” The default condition (while sleeping, unconscious, etc.) is “on.”

Emphasis from book.

And, checking Actions After Being Grappled:

Originally Posted by Campaigns, pg 371

You can Ready an item if you have a hand free, but you must make a DX roll. Failure means you drop the item. Ready maneuvers to switch advantages off and on succeed automatically.

So . . . BAMF!

ETA:
Having re-read the original post, this is about the Spell, but many of us were talking about the Advantage. If you have the spell, you can't escape with teleportation, but, with the Advantage, you're golden.

Blink is a bit more dicey:

Originally Posted by Magic, pg 8

Blocking spells may be cast without concentrating, during a foe’s turn, to defend against an attack.

A little further in

Originally Posted by Magic, pgs 12-13

It is the magical equivalent of a block, parry, or dodge (and often counts as one of these defenses; see the spell description for details).

And, even the description of the Blink spell:

Originally Posted by Magic, pg 148

For combat purposes, the “blink” is treated as a dodge that succeeds automatically if the spell roll is made.

So, yes. You can use Blink to avoid a grapple, but, once grappled, you can't use the spell to escape.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

To be fair, Warp doesn't say anywhere that you must take a concentrate maneuver, only preparation. The book says:

To be fair I'm pretty sure the person saying you can't Concentrate in a Grapple was referring to the magic Spell Blink, which to cast does require you be able to Concentrate.


However I do agree, you should be able to Concentrate as long as you are conscious, albeit with possible penalties. In fact that whole list of "cannot Maneuvers" is pretty silly*.

"Oh no this guy put me in an arm lock, I cannot possibly think really hard about setting his pants on fire (Concentrate) while not resisting him physically or prepare for him to be distracted by my ally running up to hit him (Wait)!"




* I accept not being able to say Aim... but even with this I can see cases being made where an Aim maneuver would be allowed (usually in the "You're so strong or large you can still move even if grappled" cases).

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I'd certainly let a grappler decide if they were going to go along with a teleporter. I wouldn't force them.

Probably a wise rule. Though it does become inconsistent with the "attack" form of Warp, where the teleporter grabs someone to take them somewhere unpleasant. If others could always choose not to go with the 'porter, this attack wouldn't work (except by trickery and betrayal). But then, you might find that desirable as well.

(Just another potential inconsistency for the reductionist simulationist mindset to fret over.)

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

To be fair I'm pretty sure the person saying you can't Concentrate in a Grapple was referring to the magic Spell Blink, which to cast does require you be able to Concentrate.

Yeah, I figured that out and added an edit.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

However I do agree, you should be able to Concentrate as long as you are conscious, albeit with possible penalties. In fact that whole list of "cannot Maneuvers" is pretty silly*.

"Oh no this guy put me in an arm lock, I cannot possibly think really hard about setting his pants on fire (Concentrate) while not resisting him physically or prepare for him to be distracted by my ally running up to hit him (Wait)!"

* I accept not being able to say Aim... but even with this I can see cases being made where an Aim maneuver would be allowed (usually in the "You're so strong or large you can still move even if grappled" cases).

Right, it should be a penalty to concentrate, not being forbidden from doing so.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Probably a wise rule. Though it does become inconsistent with the "attack" form of Warp, where the teleporter grabs someone to take them somewhere unpleasant. If others could always choose not to go with the 'porter, this attack wouldn't work (except by trickery and betrayal). But then, you might find that desirable as well.

(Just another potential inconsistency for the reductionist simulationist mindset to fret over.)

I strongly disagree. In the original example, the grappler would have no control over going or not. It would either be an aspect of the spell or a decision of the caster. The grappler would have no say in the matter.

If they had pertinent senses to detect something was about to happen, I might give a Perception (or relevant advantage) roll to notice and decide what they wanted to do (release or hold tighter), but they wouldn't get the option to decide if they wanted to go or not. It's not their decision to make.

In the case of grabbing someone and porting, unless the victim had some ability to get away before the 'port took place and the attacker had the ability to carry them . . . they're going where the attacker does.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Probably a wise rule. Though it does become inconsistent with the "attack" form of Warp, where the teleporter grabs someone to take them somewhere unpleasant. If others could always choose not to go with the 'porter, this attack wouldn't work (except by trickery and betrayal). But then, you might find that desirable as well.

If the teleporter has control of the grapple, then the victim doesn't get a choice. Just like if an ogre has control the grapple and wants to go somewhere, the victim doesn't have a choice.

My point was more than if the ogre has grappled the wizard, and the wizard uses Warp or Blink, then the ogre can decide to release the grapple and let the wizard escape rather than be dragged along the teleport. Just like if the ogre had control of the grapple and the wizard suddenly punched him in the face - I'd let the ogre release the grapple if the ogre wanted to Dodge and Retreat.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

My point was more than if the ogre has grappled the wizard, and the wizard uses Warp or Blink, then the ogre can decide to release the grapple and let the wizard escape rather than be dragged along the teleport. Just like if the ogre had control of the grapple and the wizard suddenly punched him in the face - I'd let the ogre release the grapple if the ogre wanted to Dodge and Retreat.

There is nothing in the description of Warp or Blink that gives any credence to that view.

The Ogre has no ability to make that decision. That's all up to the Wizard and/or the advantage/spell. The Ogre has no control over the ability/spell and is simply a victim of it.

[InLaNoche]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

There is nothing in the description of Warp or Blink that gives any credence to that view.

The Ogre has no ability to make that decision. That's all up to the Wizard and/or the advantage/spell. The Ogre has no control over the ability/spell and is simply a victim of it.

I have to strongly agree with this. Unless the spell had some kind of delay with a visual effect (such as takes extra time, and creates a glowing aura, really, I don't know much about spells, but I've seen much media on teleporting...) or you declared that you are going to teleport, then really, the attacker would have no idea, or reason to let go. To them it would just seem like the 'grapplee' was just struggling.

As to the early conversations about warp and what you are touching, in most toons and shows featuring Night Crawler, he usually 'hops' just as he teleports... maybe for that specific reason... or just to make himself more compact... will have to ask him next time I see him.

[Gnome]

Sounds like there's some real disagreements here! Is it possible we could get some "official" word on using teleportation (whether it's a spell or a power) while grappled?

[Mark Skarr]

The Teleport Spell mandates that you take things with you:

Originally Posted by Magic, pg 147

Anything carried on your person, up to “heavy” encumbrance, goes with you. You can also take one person with you by holding hands, if the added weight does not exceed your “heavy” encumbrance limit. On a failed roll, they suffer the same effects you do.

So, yes, if you have a very beefy mage, then the Ogre would be teleported along with them, assuming they could get the spell off.

However, there is no such stipulation for either Blink or the Warp advantage.

So, yes, a beefy mage would be required to take their grappler, assuming they don't exceed their Heavy Encumbrance--but, a weak mage would simply leave the grappler behind.

There's no option for the target to resist this. So, no, unless the Ogre knew the teleportation was coming (say with Danger Sense or some Detect ability) they wouldn't get any roll to resist. It's not their decision.