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Old 01-22-2017, 02:01 PM   #21
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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Huh. Dubious assertion in 1177 BC.
Lets ask Aeneas.
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:13 PM   #22
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

Depending on how closely you want to model your setting on, you may want to consider some of these books as sources. 1177 is a good place to start.

The best book I've seen for the theory of a new type is Robert Drews' book, The End of the Bronze Age.

A good book concerning the Mycenaean place age is The Mycenaean World, by Frank Chadwick (who helped Ventris translate Linear B). One of the major surprises (and disappointments to the folks hoping to read of heroic swashbuckling derring-do in the original language) was that the documents revealed an extremely centralized, bureaucratic society.

Sing Goddess, of the stores of Achilles; Four chariots, six ingots of bronze, four helmets... Homer's version is more entertaining.

One thing to consider is that the scribes vital to the palace system. The palaces shouldn't function without them, and conversely, the scribes couldn't endure without the palaces.

Another book you should consider is Michael Wood's book In Search of the Trojan War. The book was originally written as a companion to a BBC series by the same name. If you can find the series on DVD, you may find that interesting as well. The book has been through several revisions through the years as new information has come to light.

Dan Howard, whose name you'll likely recognize, has a book, Bronze Age Military Equipment.
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

In Search of the Trojan War is on Youtube, six one hour episodes IIRC.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:09 PM   #24
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

That sounds about right. I got the DVD set from Amazon a few years ago, but it seems to have gone out of print.

If it's on You Tube, I would recommend watching at least the first episode to see if you like it. The opening credit is very much a product of its time, but the episodes themselves have held up a lot better than I had expected.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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I forget, was this the same era that had the Sea People roaming and raiding across the eastern Mediterranean?
Yes. It's also around the time of the Trojan war. Exciting times!
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Old 01-23-2017, 03:39 AM   #26
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

Saw a video documentary on this not long ago - suggested that "the sea peoples" didn't have a fixed identity but were a mixed bag of displaced people, including those whose cities had been destroyed in raids by early sea-peoples.
Also suggested that the first sea-people raiders might have been light infantrymen, originally trained for chariot support and then made redundant in an outbreak of peace immediately before the collapse started.
Although it would be interesting to see a detailed comparison between this period and the age of migrations around the fall of Rome ... almost a millennium apart.
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Old 01-23-2017, 04:14 AM   #27
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The so-called drought at the time was limited and the famine was no more severe than countless other famines over the centuries. There is no evidence of mass migrations; the people and cultures in various regions before the alleged Dark Age are exactly the same as those after the Dark Age. The so-called barbarian invasion never occurred; there was limited raiding on some coastal areas and that is all. To summarise: there was no "collapse" and there was no "Dark Age". The Dark Age is an artificial construction to compensate for the fact that the chronology we are currently using is wrong.

1177 is not a good reference to start with. Start with "End of the Bronze Age" by Robert Drews. Then read "Centuries of Darkness" by Peter James et al. My book uses the latest research to summarise military equipment and warfare at the time.
https://www.amazon.com/Bronze-Age-Mi.../dp/1848842937
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:46 AM   #28
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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The so-called drought at the time was limited and the famine was no more severe than countless other famines over the centuries. There is no evidence of mass migrations; the people and cultures in various regions before the alleged Dark Age are exactly the same as those after the Dark Age. The so-called barbarian invasion never occurred; there was limited raiding on some coastal areas and that is all. To summarise: there was no "collapse" and there was no "Dark Age". The Dark Age is an artificial construction to compensate for the fact that the chronology we are currently using is wrong.

1177 is not a good reference to start with. Start with "End of the Bronze Age" by Robert Drews. Then read "Centuries of Darkness" by Peter James et al. My book uses the latest research to summarise military equipment and warfare at the time.
https://www.amazon.com/Bronze-Age-Mi.../dp/1848842937
Spoilsport. :o)

I have your book, and I like it.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:01 AM   #29
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
The so-called drought at the time was limited and the famine was no more severe than countless other famines over the centuries. There is no evidence of mass migrations; the people and cultures in various regions before the alleged Dark Age are exactly the same as those after the Dark Age. The so-called barbarian invasion never occurred; there was limited raiding on some coastal areas and that is all. To summarise: there was no "collapse" and there was no "Dark Age". The Dark Age is an artificial construction to compensate for the fact that the chronology we are currently using is wrong.

1177 is not a good reference to start with. Start with "End of the Bronze Age" by Robert Drews. Then read "Centuries of Darkness" by Peter James et al. My book uses the latest research to summarise military equipment and warfare at the time.
https://www.amazon.com/Bronze-Age-Mi.../dp/1848842937
If you aren't in a field, it can be quite hard to distinguish between well supported but disruptive arguments, and well spoken cranks. Is there a good even-handed (which can come down hard on one side if that is the evidence...), independent repository of chronology arguments out there that isn't behind a pay-wall?
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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If you aren't in a field, it can be quite hard to distinguish between well supported but disruptive arguments, and well spoken cranks. Is there a good even-handed (which can come down hard on one side if that is the evidence...), independent repository of chronology arguments out there that isn't behind a pay-wall?
The Twentieth Century is pretty obviously a Dark Age in Poland and a Golden Age in America. You can always find enough to justify stuff depending on which perspective you are starting from when you look. But hairy smelly people trampling through a place leaving famine, plague, crime, internal feuding, and general lawlessness behind them is always a dark age for the locals even if those same hairy smelly people go home to sell their loot, build grand palaces full of viands, and concubines, and fan-waving slaves and poets chanting of their deeds.
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