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Old 07-31-2014, 10:45 AM   #11
xerxes
 
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

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Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
I was told somewhere that saber emphasized reflexes while foil has more strategems. I remember watching some of Mariel Zagunis' bouts and they were usually short fluries of motion before the buzzer rang. Nothing like the stereotyped Dread Pirate Roberts vs Inigo Montayo kind of thing.

You seem to be refering to modern (European) sport fencing.

Modern saber fencing is not about using a sword; it's about slapping someone with a thin, flexible rod. Just as modern kendo is not about using a Japanese sword; it's about slapping someone with a piece of bamboo.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:15 AM   #12
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
For most PCs without Wealth, $700 (saber) vs. $1,000 (edged rapier) is a huge deal. At TL4 ($2,000 starting money), that $300 means having 30% more armor. Also remember that longest reach – not current reach – penalizes close combat. A rapier gives -8 to attack/-4 to defend there, while a saber gives -4/-2. From a purely gamist stance, then, a saber leaves more resources free for other gear and penalizes you less in the bind.

In concrete terms, if two fighters with the same cash and skill levels fight with these weapons, the one with the saber is going to be better-protected than the one with the rapier, and will have the option to charge in close and fight at an effective +4 advantage. Of course, the one with the rapier will have +1 cutting damage and the reach advantage, so he might be able to win the fight before it's in his face. Based on hex-map battles I've run, it's very close to a toss-up.
Well im playing a pc that is very wealthy so ... :(

And hes good at brawling and he couldve gotten a light edged rapier for the same price and using a skill that will allow him the option of a reach 2 weapon later on without using another skill

Last edited by D10; 07-31-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

The thing to do is exploit short reach (or "handiness," if you prefer) – that's harder than exploiting long reach, but it is possible.

That said, there's no reason for any two weapons to be comparable in the game or in real life on the basis of general factors such as skill difficulty and cost. Both Guns (SMG) and Guns (Rifle) are DX/E, and a good SMG costs as much as a good battle rifle ($1,200-$1,500). Both Saber and Rapier are DX/A, and the weapons are fairly close in price. The demand for the "lesser" weapon comes from its utility in special situations: an SMG has Bulk -3* or -4* to the battle rifle's -5 or -6; a saber is at -3 to Holdout and -4 to skill in close combat to a rapier's -5 to Holdout and -8 to skill in close combat. If you don't plan to conceal your weapon or use it in tight quarters, then go with the longest, heaviest weapon your money will buy!
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:35 AM   #14
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

At the end of the day I was allowed to switch since there was no differece in cost or performance between a LER and a saber.

But I gotta say I was disapointed in that the saber is basically a poors man rapier and only if you are playing in settings that dont allow light edged rapiers otherwise you are needlessly limitating your options..

I originally thought they didnt had the extra parry penalty vs flails but not even that..

I see the point about close combat but then again.. if you can do it all with a rapier of the same price ... whats the point ?

Last edited by D10; 07-31-2014 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:39 AM   #15
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

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Originally Posted by D10 View Post
Well im playing a pc that is very wealthy so ... :(

And hes good at brawling
Don't frowny face just yet - while the difference between $700 and $1000 might not mean much when you have $40,000 to spend, the difference between $16,800 and $24,000 (for Very Fine, Balanced weapons) might mean quite a bit. That's an extra $5,200 to spend on armor - enough to make at least some of your armor ($1,300 worth, going off base cost) Fluted (for a weight reduction) or Hardened Steel (for +1 DR). Or you can spend some of that making your saber presentation-quality - a +2 to reaction rolls would be +$2,800, leaving you with $2,400 to spend on something else.

Oh, and I think sabers more often had hilts designed as fistloads than rapiers did, so there's that bit as well if your character enjoys brawling.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Don't frowny face just yet - while the difference between $700 and $1000 might not mean much when you have $40,000 to spend, the difference between $16,800 and $24,000 (for Very Fine, Balanced weapons) might mean quite a bit. That's an extra $5,200 to spend on armor - enough to make at least some of your armor ($1,300 worth, going off base cost) Fluted (for a weight reduction) or Hardened Steel (for +1 DR). Or you can spend some of that making your saber presentation-quality - a +2 to reaction rolls would be +$2,800, leaving you with $2,400 to spend on something else.

Oh, and I think sabers more often had hilts designed as fistloads than rapiers did, so there's that bit as well if your character enjoys brawling.
Its actually $20000 so I cant start with a VF weapon. And as I said, I can have a weapon with identical price and stats (its also $700 with 0.25 extra weight as the only difference) to a saber (the light edged rapier)
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

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Originally Posted by D10 View Post
I see the point about close combat but then again.. if you can do it all with a rapier of the same price ... whats the point ?
People don't actually chose weapons based on the same criteria as gamers for the most part, and GURPS stats reflect reality as much as possible. For the most part in real life, the saber was a dueling weapon, and according to the rules you wouldn't have a choice.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

All said thanks for the feedback. My question has been answered and with great insight.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
People don't actually chose weapons based on the same criteria as gamers for the most part, and GURPS stats reflect reality as much as possible. For the most part in real life, the saber was a dueling weapon, and according to the rules you wouldn't have a choice.
The other option is to end up with 3.5 D&D, where you can create something like 90-95% of all weapons based on their size and how difficult it is to use. Perfectly balanced.
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is there any advantage to using a saber ?

How realistic are the stats for the Edged Rapier? I've heard that regardless of its sharpness, the blade of a rapier would be too flimsy the slash with, meaning a cut would more closely resemble a Tip Slash than a proper cut.
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