Regeneration (FP only)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Restoration of Cyclic-damaged HP is supended while undergoing Cycling damage unless you get rid of Cyclic somehow. .

Where is this written?

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Sure there is.

I quoted that earlier. In an attempt to clarify my point: the limiting condition (need shelter/heat) is in RAW. But there's no exception to that requirement for shelter because you have Regen (FP), or can otherwise regen FP faster than the base human rate. The clause after the "or" that I added in my previous post is the one I'm claiming isn't in the RAW.

If the rule said, for instance, "you lose one FP, and your rate of regaining FP is reduced by one unless you have shelter and heat", then you could "overpower" the limitation with extra FP regen, while still meaning normal humans couldn't recover.

But it just says "recovery of FP lost to cold requires shelter". No matter how many FP you can add per tick, per RAW, recovery of any FP lost to cold requires shelter and warmth.

Actually, I suspect it's just a matter of convenience that starvation and cold are marked against FP. That's not really the same form of temporary damage as getting tired from Extra Effort in combat. You can imagine a scale derived from HT, just like FP, for "Cold Damage" and "Loss of Sleep Tolerance". And then there's be some crossover; lower LoST scores could well affect your FP score. And all that would be a lot more complicated track and usually not worth it.

Note that if you use ER rules, spellcasters don't benefit from Regen(FP) either. This is a case where you explictly introduce two parallel scales, when players do find it worth while to track FP separately from similar stats that are very FP-like, and normally just lumped in with FP.

So, I see Regen (FP) not as combined Doesn't Sleep and Temperature Tolerance and More Extra Effort; just More Extra Effort.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I quoted that earlier.

Ah, sorry. Jumped at one sentence. Misunderstanding.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Where is this written?

Oh, I see this amuses you. I'll play. ^_^

Originally Posted by the description of Cyclic

Worst of all, the victim cannot
recover HP or FP lost to a Cyclic
attack until the attack stops damaging
him!

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Where is this written?

Basic pg 103. It specifies that it's only the damage inflicted by the Cyclic attack itself which cannot be restored; it doesn't prevent other injuries from healing normally. I suppose one way to look at it is that a Cyclic attack inflicts a single wound, but inflicts it over an extended period. The wound cannot be patched up until it stops being inflicted. But note that "you must specify a reasonably common set of circumstances that halt any further damage from your attack." A Cyclic attack justified as severe bleeding might take a First Aid roll, a burning attack would need to be extinguished, acid could be washed off, etc.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Oh, I see this amuses you. I'll play. ^_^

No, it didn't amuse me. I was sincerely asking where you had gotten that A simple answer of "Characters p.103" would have been far more helpful.

Even though this is RAW it looks Munchkin-y and I can see situations where I'd have to overrule it anyway.

You could potentially be negating a very expensive Advantage (up to 150 cp in Regen) with a very cheap Innate Attack (like Toxic ,1 pt of damage with Cyclic 1 day, Blood Agent for a base 0.7 cp ).

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

If the rule said, for instance, "you lose one FP, and your rate of regaining FP is reduced by one unless you have shelter and heat", then you could "overpower" the limitation with extra FP regen, while still meaning normal humans couldn't recover.

But it just says "recovery of FP lost to cold requires shelter". No matter how many FP you can add per tick, per RAW, recovery of any FP lost to cold requires shelter and warmth.

Actually, I suspect it's just a matter of convenience that starvation and cold are marked against FP. That's not really the same form of temporary damage as getting tired from Extra Effort in combat. You can imagine a scale derived from HT, just like FP, for "Cold Damage" and "Loss of Sleep Tolerance". And then there's be some crossover; lower LoST scores could well affect your FP score. And all that would be a lot more complicated track and usually not worth it.

Note that if you use ER rules, spellcasters don't benefit from Regen(FP) either. This is a case where you explictly introduce two parallel scales, when players do find it worth while to track FP separately from similar stats that are very FP-like, and normally just lumped in with FP.

So, I see Regen (FP) not as combined Doesn't Sleep and Temperature Tolerance and More Extra Effort; just More Extra Effort.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

This is a good example of the "is GURPS effect-based?" debate. Regen (FP) gets you only the effects it says it has. That's distinct from the character concept here, which is "guy with boundless energy, never gets tired", or perhaps "guy that's endless enduring, unstoppable". That concept might even have been sparked by contemplating Regen (FP) as a cool power. But, the extrapolation about other nifty things Enduring Energetic Guy can do -- run fast, tolerate cold -- that are a good fit for the concept still don't come with Regen itself for free. You buy the extra Move and Temperature Tolerance if you want them. The justification for the extra running Move might be "doesn't get tired", but just having a good reason to buy an ability doesn't get you the ability. You still have to buy it.

(This is also one reason some GMs don't care about CP levels for characters. They'd rather have the fully fleshed-out characters with their logically deduced abilities than worry about strict CP equality, and not have to drop out some logical consequence because they had to squeeze ten points out of the build. Other groups are more concerned about preserving a level of build fairness.)

I'm inclined to agree with this.

Example:
1) Control (Fire) + Control (Fire) still requires innate attacks in order to shoot jets of flame, make fires leap onto enemies, cause enemies to spontaneously immolate.
2) Control (Earth) still requires environmental telekinesis in order to quickly manipulate objects in a fine and controlled fashion at range.
3) 30 levels of Altered Time Rate allows you to move 31 times faster then a normal person. In theory, you should be able to look at each frame of a film for almost a second (your time) before it switched to the next (assuming an average of 32 frames a second.) But Altered Time Rate, no matter it's level, does not also include Enhanced Time Sense.

You don't get other advantages for free unless those advantages are specifically stated to be included in an advantage you have (like how danger sense is specifically included in precognition and combat reflexes is included in enhanced time sense.)

You don't get doesn't sleep; doesn't eat or drink; and temperature tolerance.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

No, it didn't amuse me. I was sincerely asking where you had gotten that A simple answer of "Characters p.103" would have been far more helpful.

Even though this is RAW it looks Munchkin-y and I can see situations where I'd have to overrule it anyway.

You could potentially be negating a very expensive Advantage (up to 150 cp in Regen) with a very cheap Innate Attack (like Toxic ,1 pt of damage with Cyclic 1 day, Blood Agent for a base 0.7 cp ).

Only the injury caused by the cyclic attack fails to heal as normal. Taking 24 hours to deal 2 injury AND requiring some way to prevent that injury from occurring isn't really all that awesome.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Only the injury caused by the cyclic attack fails to heal as normal. Taking 24 hours to deal 2 injury AND requiring some way to prevent that injury from occurring isn't really all that awesome.

20 cycles for 14cp would let you potentially kill someone who regenerates slightly more than 1 9mm bullet wound per second. It would take 20 days but a way to remove the Cyclic damage before the Cycles stop does not seem to be mandatory.

It doesn't have to be 0.7 per day. It could be limited down to 0.2. So you could build something like an Inescapable Death Curse with 120 Cycles at 1 pt per day for 24pts that would kill the toughest human no matter what anyone else did (barring even more exotic Neutralize abilities) .

I'd be very unlikely to let a PC build a Power like this. I'd probably just ignore that little bit of text at the bottom of p.103 for the sake of simplicity RAW or not.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

20 cycles for 14cp would let you potentially kill someone who regenerates slightly more than 1 9mm bullet wound per second. It would take 20 days but a way to remove the Cyclic damage before the Cycles stop does not seem to be mandatory.

It doesn't have to be 0.7 per day. It could be limited down to 0.2. So you could build something like an Inescapable Death Curse with 120 Cycles at 1 pt per day for 24pts that would kill the toughest human no matter what anyone else did (barring even more exotic Neutralize abilities) .

I'd be very unlikely to let a PC build a Power like this. I'd probably just ignore that little bit of text at the bottom of p.103 for the sake of simplicity RAW or not.

You skipped a page in Basic, apparently.

Originally Posted by Basic, pg104

You must specify a reasonably common set of circumstances that halt any further damage from your attack. For instance, to halt cyclic corrosion or burning damage, the victim might have to wash the acid off or roll on the ground to extinguish the flames, taking one or more seconds and a DX or IQ roll. Fatigue or toxic damage might require drugs or medical care (use Physician skill). Details are up to the GM.