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Old 08-02-2020, 04:53 AM   #1
scc
 
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Default Cribing Notes From Star Wars

So the idea for a setting heavily inspired by Star Wars, right down to serial numbers filed off versions of SW ships has been haunting me, preventing me from working on anything else, so this thread is me asking for help trying to figure out the missing details.

So the basic history is that long ago there was galactic civilization, but that was destroyed in a war that saw everyone pretty much bomber back to the stone age, or at least something close to it. The players will be operating in an area know as the hundred worlds, so-called because it has about 100 known inhabited worlds, which recently has recently had to deal with a bit of a problem with someone trying to conquer the entire region, this was resolved when the guy in charge was assassinated and a civil war broke out between his sons over who got the top job.

This whole setup means I can have a fair number of species and a good number of worlds without things going crazy. Interestingly it also means that worlds being strangely specialized (E.g. prison or resort worlds) doesn't happen. It also provides a handy reason for running into ancient artifacts.

So problems that I've identified:
1. Minor one with ships, I'm sure there's a line somewhere about using items from Ulta-Tech to outfit Spaceships, so does that mean I can use the Barrier Screens from page 171 to protect my ships?

2. Speed, this is a bit of a multi-headed one, but starfighters engage in WW2 dogfighting is SW. This means not only do they have a top speed, but at full acceleration they can reach that top speed fairly, probably a single turn. How high is this likely to be given that these a human controlled ships?

b) Bigger ships tend to be slower, so how much should speed to be reduced per increase in SM?

c) I'm planning to use a systems where hyperspace multiplies your speed by the function Y^X, where X is the FTL rating of your ship and Y is a constant, given the above constraints what values do people suggest for Y and what should the default FTL rating be?

3. Minor money matters: Money changers charge how much? 10% And when the empire started shedding systems how long could former systems go on using imperial currency without problems?

4. I think I mentioned my idea of how to handle races for this sort of thing before but I'll repeat it: Adjectives, so players can pick packages like Strong or Flyer, but how many adjectives, both total and that players can pick; cost range; should I include Disadvantages; I'm sure there's more, I just can't think of them.
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:05 AM   #2
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

Although this doesn't directly address your questions, I'll point you in the direction of Mailanka's blog, who has been working on a 'Star Wars with the serial numbers filed off setting' for several years: https://mailanka.blogspot.com/ and http://psi-wars.wikidot.com/. Hopefully you can get some ideas from these sources.
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
So problems that I've identified:
1. Minor one with ships, I'm sure there's a line somewhere about using items from Ulta-Tech to outfit Spaceships, so does that mean I can use the Barrier Screens from page 171 to protect my ships?
Why not use the Force Screen system on Spaceships 16?

Quote:
2. Speed, this is a bit of a multi-headed one, but starfighters engage in WW2 dogfighting is SW. This means not only do they have a top speed, but at full acceleration they can reach that top speed fairly, probably a single turn. How high is this likely to be given that these a human controlled ships?
See Spaceships 4 p.33 "Airplane-Style Dogfights" it suggests 12x thrust rating

Quote:
b) Bigger ships tend to be slower, so how much should speed to be reduced per increase in SM?
I would handle this mostly by giving smaller ships more/faster engines, but you might go with -80% at max SM, then interpolate the percentages between that and SM+4 (speedy fighter craft).

Quote:
c) I'm planning to use a systems where hyperspace multiplies your speed by the function Y^X, where X is the FTL rating of your ship and Y is a constant, given the above constraints what values do people suggest for Y and what should the default FTL rating be?
I would make the base FTL rating 1. Y is going to depend on how much distance you want them to be able to cover, but I wouldn't feel restrained by sensible physics with FTL.

Quote:
3. Minor money matters: Money changers charge how much? 10% And when the empire started shedding systems how long could former systems go on using imperial currency without problems?
Depends on the system? Anything from 10% (cheap and easy) to 90% (major source of revenue in the system, or sees too little demand to keep supply/competition up).

Quote:
4. I think I mentioned my idea of how to handle races for this sort of thing before but I'll repeat it: Adjectives, so players can pick packages like Strong or Flyer, but how many adjectives, both total and that players can pick; cost range; should I include Disadvantages; I'm sure there's more, I just can't think of them.
There's no particular reason to limit number of adjectives picked, given how GURPS works, but 2-3 to pick seems sensible. I'd try for 7-12 total. You may want to separate out morphological (winged, insectoid, 6-armed...), metabolic (fast, slow, strong, weak, etc.) and mental (focused, sensitive, etc.) adjectives, at least to make choices easier to find and think through, in which case you can afford more total adjectives without as much risk of decision paralysis.
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

On money-changing:

From a quick google on the internet, in the modern world 10% per exchange is surprisingly high. 5% per exchange is high, but not uncommon. 1% per exchange takes some shopping, and often requires you to transfer thousands of dollars at a time, but is doable. However, sometimes small currencies get tied to big ones that makes exchanging them really easy and cheap.

If the imperial currency is backed by something, you can run on their money without too much issue. If its a fiat currency, you probably need to make your own currency out of self-defense. exchange rate is not the issue: the imperials indirectly taxing you through inflation and other monetary policies is. If you didn't actually leave their sphere of influence, you may be able to keep using their fiat currency, but that doesn't sound like what's going on here.

On FTL speed:
The question isn't how fast you want to go in terms of light speed, but how fast you want to go in terms of planets. How long does it take to go from one inhabited world to another, and how far are they apart from each other? If you can answer two of those questions for me, I can tell you how fast your ships need to be.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
So problems that I've identified:
1. Minor one with ships, I'm sure there's a line somewhere about using items from Ulta-Tech to outfit Spaceships, so does that mean I can use the Barrier Screens from page 171 to protect my ships?

2. Speed, this is a bit of a multi-headed one, but starfighters engage in WW2 dogfighting is SW.

b) Bigger ships tend to be slower, so how much should speed to be reduced per increase in SM?

c) I'm planning to use a systems where hyperspace multiplies your speed by the function Y^X, where X is the FTL rating of your ship and Y is a constant, given the above constraints what values do people suggest for Y and what should the default FTL rating be?
1. To do this build ships as characters with Compartmentalized Minds (Controls) and add Accessory Perks (and of course $) to signify things from UT that are simply built in to the hull. Weapos are going to need to go on Weapon Mounts (see Extra Limbs). This may seem restirctive comapred to Spaceships but it might eb more realistic. The US Navy doesn't design all new weapons every time they build a different size of ship.

2. The basic solution is known as the "hyperdynamic paradigm". This transaltes simpel into "spaceships fly like airplanes only faster". You choose a "Hyperdynamic Factor) as a multiplier to ge the speed you want. WwII fighters were flyign at 250 to 400 mph and shooting at each othr with machine guns at 250 to 400 yards. If your basic star fighter weapon is the Semi-portable X-ray Laser which has a space-based 1/2D Range of 40 miles you choose a speed that scales with that.

b. Speed should be reduced enough to be significant. If you went with -10% per SM increase compared to SM+4 fighter SM+15 Star Destroyers would be immobile. So maybe 5%.

c. is unanswerable until you deicde how far apart your worlds are and how laong you wan tte average trip to be. This can be reduced to just how long you want the trips to last. The "feel" of the movies would make it jsut acoupel of days to cross the setting in a fast ship.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
1. Minor one with ships, I'm sure there's a line somewhere about using items from Ulta-Tech to outfit Spaceships, so does that mean I can use the Barrier Screens from page 171 to protect my ships?
Given they're superscience, you can pretty much give them whatever weight and stats you want. So, sure, that's an option. The important thing is to weigh it against the weapons and decide how you want fights to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
2. Speed, this is a bit of a multi-headed one, but starfighters engage in WW2 dogfighting is SW. This means not only do they have a top speed, but at full acceleration they can reach that top speed fairly, probably a single turn. How high is this likely to be given that these a human controlled ships?
I'd actually suggest against using the Spaceships combat system here; dogfighting is probably better done with the systems from Campaigns (although there's apparently a Pyramid article that modifies the chase rules from Action! for dogfighting). My Harpyias setting takes heavy inspiration from Star Wars, and I opted to give capital ships Move 1/10 per drive, while fighters have Move 10/50 per drive. These are meant to give top speeds roughly comparable to WWII-era naval ships and fighters, respectively, but the accelerations are markedly higher - the USS Enterprise (CV-6) had a top speed around 18 yards per second, for ~2 drives, although I suspect this took markedly longer than 10 seconds to reach; meanwhile, the P-51D Mustang had a top speed of around 218 yards per second, achievable with ~4 drives, but HT 238 only gives it an acceleration of 3 yards/second/second, not the ~4 G's the above drives would give. Something like Move 1/50 per drive might give more WWII-style maneuverability for fighters, and looking up some more about WWII naval vessels it's likely a top speed of 5 yards per second per drive may be more appropriate (the fastest had a top speed around 25 yards per second), although I have no clue what acceleration would be appropriate.

That's for combat, and near a planet. For travel through space, this might need to ramp up if you want to allow for something like the X-Wings launching from Yavin IV and reaching the Death Star relatively quickly (although once there, they were largely going at WWII velocities). I opted for extremely fast boost drives, which may or may not work for you.

Honestly, I may opt to revise the stats in Harpyias; I think my prior numbers were due to some bad research...

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
b) Bigger ships tend to be slower, so how much should speed to be reduced per increase in SM?
I'd be tempted to go with the breakdown used for the old d20 Star Wars Roleplaying Game, with fighters, space transports, and capital ships. Capital ships should have performance comparable to naval vessels, while fighters would have performance comparable to fighter craft. For space transports/gunships (like the Millennium Falcon), those end up somewhere in-between. I'd probably go with SM +4 through +6 as fighters, +7 through +9 as transports/gunships, and +10 and higher as capital.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
c. is unanswerable until you deicde how far apart your worlds are and how laong you wan tte average trip to be. This can be reduced to just how long you want the trips to last. The "feel" of the movies would make it jsut acoupel of days to cross the setting in a fast ship.
The correct answer is that FTL speed should be based on how long your desired story needs it to take to get to Nearby Interesting Place (NIP).

If you want travel times measured in weeks, and NIP means habitable planets on average 10 light years apart, a good FTL speed might be about 200-300x light speed. If you are crossing significant chunks of galactic geography in hours or days, it would be hundreds of thousands to millions of times light speed.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

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Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
If you are crossing significant chunks of galactic geography in hours or days, it would be hundreds of thousands to millions of times light speed.
A related issue that Star Wars doesn't explicitly consider is, how does one know which places are interesting? A galaxy-spanning FLT drive could potentially reach billions of worlds. A searchable Encyclopedia Galactica (or Hitchhiker's Guide) might provide some clues, but it's hard to build a campaign around a source so open-ended.
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Old 08-05-2020, 02:28 PM   #9
scc
 
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby Bush View Post
Why not use the Force Screen system on Spaceships 16?
Cheaper, lighter, more protection, don't use power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby Bush View Post
I would handle this mostly by giving smaller ships more/faster engines, but you might go with -80% at max SM, then interpolate the percentages between that and SM+4 (speedy fighter craft).
The thing is it's easier for larger ships to have enough free spaces to put into more engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
On money-changing:

From a quick google on the internet, in the modern world 10% per exchange is surprisingly high. 5% per exchange is high, but not uncommon. 1% per exchange takes some shopping, and often requires you to transfer thousands of dollars at a time, but is doable. However, sometimes small currencies get tied to big ones that makes exchanging them really easy and cheap.
The things is there's no well worked out system of proper interstellar money moving, imagine age of sail but instead of gold everyone uses fiat.

If the imperial currency is backed by something, you can run on their money without too much issue. If its a fiat currency, you probably need to make your own currency out of self-defense. exchange rate is not the issue: the imperials indirectly taxing you through inflation and other monetary policies is. If you didn't actually leave their sphere of influence, you may be able to keep using their fiat currency, but that doesn't sound like what's going on here. [/QUOTE]
Not backed by anything, and the problem is not being able to print your own money. Imagine a version of the Greek debt crisses where they had never had permission to join the Eurozone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
On FTL speed:
The question isn't how fast you want to go in terms of light speed, but how fast you want to go in terms of planets. How long does it take to go from one inhabited world to another, and how far are they apart from each other? If you can answer two of those questions for me, I can tell you how fast your ships need to be.
Maybe a year for the longest journey's, with tramp freighters managing 5 times their realspace speed, normal freighters 25, high-speed/passenger freighters and military vessels 125, and 525 for very rare dispatch couriers, the the 125 figure for baseline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
1. To do this build ships as characters with Compartmentalized Minds (Controls) and add Accessory Perks (and of course $) to signify things from UT that are simply built in to the hull. Weapos are going to need to go on Weapon Mounts (see Extra Limbs). This may seem restirctive comapred to Spaceships but it might eb more realistic. The US Navy doesn't design all new weapons every time they build a different size of ship.

2. The basic solution is known as the "hyperdynamic paradigm". This transaltes simpel into "spaceships fly like airplanes only faster". You choose a "Hyperdynamic Factor) as a multiplier to ge the speed you want. WwII fighters were flyign at 250 to 400 mph and shooting at each othr with machine guns at 250 to 400 yards. If your basic star fighter weapon is the Semi-portable X-ray Laser which has a space-based 1/2D Range of 40 miles you choose a speed that scales with that.
Spaceships


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
b. Speed should be reduced enough to be significant. If you went with -10% per SM increase compared to SM+4 fighter SM+15 Star Destroyers would be immobile. So maybe 5%.
I was thinking reduction relative to previous level, or maybe a tiered system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
c. is unanswerable until you deicde how far apart your worlds are and how laong you wan tte average trip to be. This can be reduced to just how long you want the trips to last. The "feel" of the movies would make it jsut acoupel of days to cross the setting in a fast ship.
What's a reasonable volume of space to have, say 130, inhabitable planets in then? 100 ly? 50?
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Old 08-05-2020, 03:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Cribing Notes From Star Wars

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What's a reasonable volume of space to have, say 130, inhabitable planets in then? 100 ly? 50?
In a 20 ly radius around Earth, there are 22 stars in the K, G, and F range, including four binary* and three trinary** systems, which have the potential for stable orbits in the life zone. If we assume even half of those have an inhabitable planet in the life zone, that's 11 potentially inhabitable planets. That number almost doubles if you include M0 to M3 type stars.

So I'd say between 75 and 150 lightyears is a good radius for 130 inhabitable planets, depending on how you have the population density of stars.




* Counting Alpha Centauri as a binary here, with Proxima far enough out to not affect the other two's life zones. Procyon, 61 Cygni, and 82 Eridani are the other binary systems, and 82 Eridani is a close-orbiting binary with a combined brightness in the G5 range. Procyon, like Sirius, has a white dwarf companion, so likely does not have an inhabitable planet.


** 36 Ophiuchi, with two K-type stars 8 AU apart at closest approach, and a third K-type 4340 AU away from the binary; Gliese 570 is a K-type star with a close-orbiting binary reaching M1 brightness; Omicron(2) Eridani, a K-type star with a white dwarf and a red dwarf orbiting each other, getting 20 AU away from the main star at closest approach
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