Darkness and invisible Fire

[hcobb]

1. If I cast the Fire spell (ITL 19) into a hex covered by the Darkness spell (ITL 19) and NOT Shadow (ITL 21), does it work?
2. Does an existing Fire hex under the effect of Darkness not burn? (Making Darkness a very cheap form of Fireproofing (ITL 25))
3. If the Fire hex continues to burn in Darkness then is it invisible as its light output has been suppressed?
4. Ditto for Dragon flame, fire elementals and such.

[Axly Suregrip]

I always played that this extinguishes the light but not the fire. That is, the fire is still there and burn but emits no light. Just like Shadow spell will hide a Fire hex, Darkness can hide several.

I am curious if others have Darkness extinguish the fires, not just the light. It has not come up in a long time, so I wonder how others play it and if they like how it works for them.

[Draygon]

Fire is but a chemical reaction or rapid oxidation in a process called combustion.
Light is the visible part of heat of a flame and a flame may occur with almost no visible light. Hydrogen sulfide flame for example is essentially non-visible because most of the spectrum is in the ultraviolet.
Hell Fire, which releases sulferc heat burns in total darkness, is a good example.

[Draygon]

Thr Bard Ymgwie Malmsteen wrote a song about it...lol

[hcobb]

If the fire is invisible then:
"your opponent will not know about a being or fire in shadow until he comes adjacent to it with one of his figures" - ITL 137
Which can interrupt the movement of foes to put the invisible fire counter on the board before they enter the hex.

[Shostak]

One would be able to feel the heat from a fire even though it is invisible.

[timm meyers]

last sentence of the spell reads.
"Torches, lights, etc., come back to life when the spell ends"

This certainly implies that "Extinguishes all artificial lights" (everything but the sun?) stated in the first sentence means they are snuffed out, kaput, no more, to magically reignite when the spell ends.

So yes I think fire mages and elementals really hate the darkness spell.....

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by timm meyers

So yes I think fire mages and elementals really hate the darkness spell.....

While I can understand the logic of that conclusion, I'm not sure I can accept it as the author's intent. It would certainly make the spell much more powerful (situationaly, of course) than it's IQ level and cost would imply.

If it was my job to add some clarity to things like this (which it isn't, but I've already started typing so I may as well finish the thought), I would rule that DARKNESS has no effect on Creation spells. Or that it just cannot extinguish magical fire.

[timm meyers]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

......It would certainly make the spell much more powerful (situationaly, of course) than it's IQ level and cost would imply.

If it was my job to add some clarity to things like this (which it isn't, but I've already started typing so I may as well finish the thought)...

(LOL cause I am already typing...I really liked that)

I think allot of rule interpretations get push back on an overly strict "power dynamic" because we (gamers) are all armchair strategists. The basic premise of comparing arms and costs of one unit to another unit and agreeing to the overall combat effectiveness is foundational to all wargames. We then simulate such a confrontation/match up with a ratio of success and throw in a chance factor to give us the result. The lopsided engagements are sure bets while equal matchups are at the mercy of the die roll. The RPG has a ton of added factors and the largest random factor of all "Players choices".

The chance matrix of the low 9 IQ, low ST cost spell, being effectively deployed against the higher IQ, heavier cost spell/creature is miniscule. So much so that I see the normal logic of unbalanced rules (cheaper/easier should not beat expensive/harder) to be irrelevant.

If a character whipped out a darkness spell on the final boss's fire elemental minions to try and attempt to kill him man to man... "Merlin, whatever you do keep that darkness spell going or we are surely dead!" I would hope I could lean into the spirit of the epic outcome and memory that fight would hopefully create.
or
What happens in the lands where the fire cult comes into power and begins hunting down all the darkness magi?
or
more likely what happens when after 30 years of playing the fire hex wizard that never encounters anyone who even knows the darkness spell because it is such a singular-focused spell and certainly never the equitable and cost balanced anti-fire magic rainstorm spell.

[Axly Suregrip]

I thought on this some more.

It is a "Darkness" spell and not an "extinguish fire" spell. The answer is in the name of the spell.

Darkening the flames but not putting them out. Like a large area affect Shadow spell. Thus we still have a need for Magic Rainstorm and Fireproofing.