Lasso Question

[Nils_Lindeberg]

Have I understood the rules right that a lasso is only ST8 and does 1+2 damage with Missile range (3-15 hexes) or can trip people? The "reload" is long but with back up lassos that shouldn't be a problem. What's the catch so to speak?

All the other peculiar weapons seem to have drawbacks, either getting an aim penalty, limited range or more normal damage. Sure there is a GM approval thing (that I will use), but still. I have a very hard time seeing a weakling 15 hexes away being able to lasso you around the neck and immediately do damage to you at the level of a longbow?

I can see how you possibly could do that to a victim that is unaware, like an animal or on a guard from behind. But quickly strangling someone with even just a little armor ready for combat seems very over the top or cowboy romantic to me.

[hcobb]

That is a bug. Fixing to be in line with bola, at least for my games.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#unusual

[larsdangly]

One mitigating factor is it doesn't get to trip and do the 1d+2 damage; my reading of the text is that it's one or the other.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by Nils_Lindeberg

Have I understood the rules right that a lasso is only ST8 and does 1+2 damage with Missile range (3-15 hexes) or can trip people?

I see no other way to read the rules.

Some prior discussion here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160916

[Helborn]

I agree. RAW is badly written. I suggest. 1) Aimed penalties to DX. 2) Range max is 10 not 15 hexes. 3) Thrown range not missile range adjustments to DX.

Lassoing is HARD.

[oldwolf]

Originally Posted by Nils_Lindeberg

Have I understood the rules right that a lasso is only ST8 and does 1+2 damage with Missile range (3-15 hexes) or can trip people? The "reload" is long but with back up lassos that shouldn't be a problem. What's the catch so to speak?

All the other peculiar weapons seem to have drawbacks, either getting an aim penalty, limited range or more normal damage. Sure there is a GM approval thing (that I will use), but still. I have a very hard time seeing a weakling 15 hexes away being able to lasso you around the neck and immediately do damage to you at the level of a longbow?

I can see how you possibly could do that to a victim that is unaware, like an animal or on a guard from behind. But quickly strangling someone with even just a little armor ready for combat seems very over the top or cowboy romantic to me.

First, the damage strikes me as wrong. Was it supposed to be 1D-2 perhaps?

Second, back up lassos, I think will take more time to ready than most weapons, not as long as the whole 6 turn pull it in, recoil, form a new loop, etc but probably at least a third of that.

Third, it is a thrown weapon, -1 DX per hex distance.

Fourth, the head shot needed for it to do damage is -6 DX.

Fifth, the rules really need to stop using hexes that are supposed to be 4 feet wide as interchangeable with yards (3 feet). A 15 yard range should actually be about 11 hexes.

All that said, even with the lasso rules as written it is not a spectacular weapon. Consider your example weakling st 8. Maybe he has iq 8 as well, so dx 16. Assume he has throwing talent so +2 dx throwing. If he targets someone 15 hexes away, going for the head because he wants to cause injury he has a -21 dx penalty. Yes, 2 of those are countered by his throwing talent but he still is in negative to hit numbers. At his closest range of 3 hexes, again trying to do damage, he has a -9 dx penalty, two of which he cancels with his throwing talent but that still means he hits on a 9. Not good.

Lastly, lasso is one of those weapons that must be used with aimed shots. Aimed shots is an optional rule. If mr weakling's GM isn't choosing to use that option lasso wont be working at all.

On thinking it over, maybe that 1D+2 isn't a mistake. Perhaps the author felt bad for anyone trying to use a lasso and tossed them a crumb.

Oops, missed the part in the lasso description that contradicts its table description as a thrown weapon. Personally, if I had to decide between the two contradictory rules I would go with the table description in any game I GMed.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by oldwolf

Lastly, lasso is one of those weapons that must be used with aimed shots.

Good spot -- RAW are confusing here.

p120. "Bola and Lasso. Attacks are of necessity “aimed.” See the description of those weapons."

OK, let's do. The description of lasso p113 describes what happens if you go for neck, arm, or body. But no reference is made there to a DX penalty. (Although under a Bola, a -4 DX penalty for head shots IS noted.)

The -6 DX penalty for the head, which you note, is described under Dagger, Sha-Ken, Whip (p 120); and a different result also with -6 DX penalty for head under Other Weapons (ie all weapons except lasso, bola, dagger, sha-ken, and whip, p 121).

Is it correct that Lasso is therefore the only weapon in the game with no DX penalty for head (or in this case, neck) attack? It seems to be....

Furthermore, for me, the most outrageous thing about the lasso, by far, is that a body attack knocks the target down, no save possible. Ignoring how a lasso can possibly do this, it is extremely unbalanced game-wise (consider a team with one charging pole attacker for each lassoing cowboy). And, even if we were to go against RAW and try to use the same DX penalties for lasso as for aimed shots with Other Weapons, all normal attacks are to the body anyway, no DX penalty.

But while I disagree that RAW lasso is a weak weapon, to come back to your point, the best way to do in the lasso is to disallow aimed shots. Then lassos (and bolas) vanish from the list of allowed weapons.

[oldwolf]

Yes, i think that is the best solution. In general i see the optional rules as a needless complication in the game.

[larsdangly]

Simply applying aimed shot and thrown weapon modifiers would bring the lasso down to earth pretty fast. Having watched professional rodeo riders miss a cow at 10' range, I feel like both house rules would be totally rational.

On the other hand, there really is no harm in just using it RAW. I've had a lasso using PC, and they are not really game changers. It is just a goofy extra bit of color in the game.

[Skarg]

Depends on how clever/tactical/focused your players are, and whether the GM comes up with rulings to limit it. As written, several of the entangling weapons are very powerful and lack the limits that kept them from being known in reality as the things that can take anyone out of action with no ways to avoid them. Lasso is perhaps the most powerful of them as written.

(Though this isn't the House Rules subforum, where we've discussed these weapons at length once or twice, my own main solution (in addition to things like already mentioned) is to add a saving throw to avoid entanglement, with advantages for facing the entangler and having weapons in hand.)