[Powers/Thaumatology] Rethinking ST-based

[naloth]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

It does: it makes any effect that reduces the user's effective ST reduce the effectiveness of the attack. Normal Innate Attacks don't have that drawback.

I suppose if ST modifying things are fairly common it's fair.

As a gadget, it's probably at more risk of being used against you with a higher ST.

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

*snip*

1. Choose the Maximum ST that the power can use (the attack's ST will be 1/3 this value if it is a Melee Attack, or equal to the selected Maximum ST otherwise), and choose whether the attack will be based on swing or thrust damage (ranged attacks should almost invariably be based on swing damage). Subtract the base thrust or swing damage, as appropriate, for the chosen Maximum ST from your abilities total damage, this gives you the damage bonus (or penalty) the ability provides. For example, an ST-limited attack with a 4d base damage, based on swing damage and Max. ST of 18 (3d swing), would do Swing+1d damage.

*snip*

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nearly every muscle-powered ranged weapon in Basic Set seems to say they use Thrust damage. Typo?

[pawsplay]

Limiting it by ST is just a minor variation on "will not work immediately for the thief."

[dataweaver]

My own inclination would be to introduce a new advantage crafted specifically for muscle-powered attacks - something along the lines of:

A melee attack that inflicts thr-2 crushing damage: 0 points.
Upgrade from thr to sw damage: 5 points.
Upgrade from crushing to cutting damage: 2 points.
Upgrade from crushing to impaling damage: 3 points.
To do more damage, use a double-cost Innate Attack pricing scheme. I'd rather it be phrased in terms of how much each +1 damage costs; but that might not be feasible.

Each mode of attack has to be purchased separately, although Alternate Attacks is a distinct possibility to consider.

More work would need to be done to flesh out the particulars; but this is the basic framework that I'd start with.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Adelus

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nearly every muscle-powered ranged weapon in Basic Set seems to say they use Thrust damage. Typo?

Uh, yeah. Oops.

[Adelus]

Just noticed something I'm having a problem with.

Me and a friend were watching a Prince of Persia 3D Lets Play, and amidst our laughter at how horrible the game is, he wondered if we could stat the Bee-arrow.

Essentially, its an arrow that, upon striking any surface, will release a cloud of bees.

The problem isn't in that mechanic; I can always just link up an attack that leaves a persistent cloud of 1d-3 pi- damage for a good 10 seconds to simulate that.

Rather, my problem is in how do I model an arrow using these ST-based rules? Its a projectile itself, rather than a weapon that fires a projectile, so it would have different damage values dependent on whether it was used with a short bow or a long bow.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Adelus

Rather, my problem is in how do I model an arrow using these ST-based rules? Its a projectile itself, rather than a weapon that fires a projectile, so it would have different damage values dependent on whether it was used with a short bow or a long bow.

The proposal, while more general than what is in Powers and Thaumatology, still doesn't handle device (even muscle-powered device)-hurled projectiles.

If anyone's got an idea how to do that, either by extending my proposal or making a different one that is general enough to encompass its scope and projectiles and stay reasonably balanced, I'd love to see it.

[jdaniels1971]

Originally Posted by Adelus

Rather, my problem is in how do I model an arrow using these ST-based rules? Its a projectile itself, rather than a weapon that fires a projectile, so it would have different damage values dependent on whether it was used with a short bow or a long bow.

The solution depends on how you define the problem. The questions that first come to mind are:

(a) Is all of the damage done by the bees?

(b) If not, should there be two damage rolls, one for the initial impact from the arrow which is an ST based attack, and one for the infernal stinging from the cloud of bees, which is not an ST based attack?

(c) Do these bees like honey?

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by jdaniels1971

The solution depends on how you define the problem. The questions that first come to mind are:

(a) Is all of the damage done by the bees?

Nope. The arrow itself would deal damage with the initial impact. Curiously, I'm also wondering now; what happens if the arrow misses? Wouldn't the bees still be released on impact with the ground or another obstruction?

Originally Posted by jdaniels1971

(b) If not, should there be two damage rolls, one for the initial impact from the arrow which is an ST based attack, and one for the infernal stinging from the cloud of bees, which is not an ST based attack?

Yep.

Originally Posted by jdaniels1971

(c) Do these bees like honey?

Idaknow. Being magically bound (or otherwise contained) in an arrow, they might as well like anything. Maybe they're blood-bees with an overwhelming urge to harvest the blood of carbon-based life forms for their extra-dimensional, non-euclidean hives :P

[jdaniels1971]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

If anyone's got an idea how to do that. . .

There is a spell in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 called Spell Archery, it "Imbues an arrow . . . with any spell that could be cast by touch." It's currently built as a spell but seems to embody the basic "special effect" you're after. So that looks like a good starting point to me. . .

Personally I'd not model spells or anything remotely similar to "magic" as ST based. With my players such a stunt would open Pandora's box and inundate me with silly questions such as:
"Why aren't gorillas and whales wizards?" and "Why can't my mule learn Control Zombie?"

Even worse would be if I made mundane plants the source of magic and magical knowledge. . .

Inevitably I would indulge my players delusions about learning a penetrating explosive fireball from a sea creature that eats plankton for a living. . . Or end up having a potato as the foremost authority on Gate spells. . . Actually that gives me more ways to mess with my players heads. . . I just might need to introduce tuber based magic after all.

But that's just me. . .