Technological Skills in a Multi-TL setting

[downer]

Hello folks.

I'm new to this forum (and to GURPS 4e), and I couldn't really find any answers to my question using the search engine. If there were any, I apologize, please point them out.

So, here goes: A group pf people from 21st century earth (TL 8) travel to an alien planet (TL 11). The group's scientist has studied alien tech before, so has upped her personal TL to 11 to signify that she knows and gets that stuff.
First question: I had the player buy all technological skills that apply (like Physics, Engineering, Computer Operation etc.) twice, at TL 8 for what she learned during her training and at TL 11 for what she learned researching alien tech. Is that alright? Or do the TL 11 skills somehow supersede the TL8 ones? The rules seem to say no, but I'd like to be sure.

The groups two tough guys, a pilot and a commando, have had no previous exposure to TL 11, so they have a personal TL of 8. All their skills are TL 8.
Second question: The pilot tries to operate an alien shuttlecraft. He has Piloting (high-performance airplane)/TL8 at DX+2/14. Now the alien craft is handled with Piloting (Aerospace) which gives him a default of 12. TL gives a -3 penalty, for a skill of 9, with another -2 for familiarity making the end result 7. Is that right so far?
Third question: the pilot's player indicated that she would like to buy skill for the alien craft, i.e. Piloting (aerospace)/TL 11. Can she use the Default she gets, or is that a default to Piloting (aerospace)/TL8 only? How do skills default across tech levels? Do they at all? This is the one that really has me confused, since the rules on pp. 168-173 say nothing whatsoever about this point.

[Haseri]

Originally Posted by downer

Hello folks.
First question: I had the player buy all technological skills that apply (like Physics, Engineering, Computer Operation etc.) twice, at TL 8 for what she learned during her training and at TL 11 for what she learned researching alien tech. Is that alright? Or do the TL 11 skills somehow supersede the TL8 ones? The rules seem to say no, but I'd like to be sure.

To really be a higher tech level, one must have spent time living in a higher TL society. Characters pg. 291 suggests 1 year per TL increase. But the Technological skill rules from page 168 do suggest you can choose skills at a lower TL, so I don't see any reason why one can't have two skills at different TLs (I'm assuming this is to get over the -5 to the TL 11 skill?)

Second question: The pilot tries to operate an alien shuttlecraft. He has Piloting (high-performance airplane)/TL8 at DX+2/14. Now the alien craft is handled with Piloting (Aerospace) which gives him a default of 12. TL gives a -3 penalty, for a skill of 9, with another -2 for familiarity making the end result 7. Is that right so far?

Looks about right. If you want to be mean you could apply a larger familarity penalty, as it would not be designed for a human pilot.

Third question: the pilot's player indicated that she would like to buy skill for the alien craft, i.e. Piloting (aerospace)/TL 11. Can she use the Default she gets, or is that a default to Piloting (aerospace)/TL8 only? How do skills default across tech levels? Do they at all? This is the one that really has me confused, since the rules on pp. 168-173 say nothing whatsoever about this point.

She would need a teacher that does no how to fly it. It's in the first paragraph of the third column of page 168 of Characters. Basically it says as long as you have somebody to teach you, one can learn any non-IQ Higher TL Technological Skill.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by downer

So, here goes: A group pf people from 21st century earth (TL 8) travel to an alien planet (TL 11).

This is a confusing and weak area of the GURPS rules, so I personally recommend doing whatever seems right to you. You seem to be pretty much OK with the usual interpretation of the RAW though.

Or do the TL 11 skills somehow supersede the TL8 ones? The rules seem to say no, but I'd like to be sure.

No, they don't, but you could probably argue for refiguring your TL8 skills, with the points you spent on them buying them up from the default you get from the higher TL version (Skill/TL11 -5). This probably won't make a difference unless you put a *lot* of points into the TL11 versions.

Second question: The pilot tries to operate an alien shuttlecraft. He has Piloting (high-performance airplane)/TL8 at DX+2/14. Now the alien craft is handled with Piloting (Aerospace) which gives him a default of 12. TL gives a -3 penalty, for a skill of 9, with another -2 for familiarity making the end result 7. Is that right so far?

Unless you want to stack more unfamilarity penalties onto that, compare the model of Guns, which stacks a bunch of them for unfamilar mechanisms.

How do skills default across tech levels? Do they at all? This is the one that really has me confused, since the rules on pp. 168-173 say nothing whatsoever about this point.

They are normally considered to default *down* at the usual Tech-Level Modifier for the difference. Defaulting up is more debatable, though I don't see a problem if you are otherwise qualified to study the advanced skill. Note that under the Basic Set rules you would have to buy your personal TL up to 11 before you can do this even for a physical skill, but these days there's a Perk, Cutting Edge Training, that confuses that.

I've personally taken to thinking of non-intellectual skill technology differences as Skill Adaptation perks. Buy your skills at whatever TL you like, spend 200 hours familiarizing yourself with the differences and drop a point into Skill Adaptation (Skill/Your TL to Skill/Target TL) and use your full skill. This is simple and makes being competent across TLs cheaper, usually a good thing in the sort of campaign that has a lot of TLs.

[vsh]

In such campaign it's a good houserule to allow different IQ/TL skills as techniques of each other.

[downer]

Thanks for the input, everyone. Working your way through the basic set can be challenging at times and it's good to hear I have something right...

Originally Posted by malloyd

I've personally taken to thinking of non-intellectual skill technology differences as Skill Adaptation perks. Buy your skills at whatever TL you like, spend 200 hours familiarizing yourself with the differences and drop a point into Skill Adaptation (Skill/Your TL to Skill/Target TL) and use your full skill. This is simple and makes being competent across TLs cheaper, usually a good thing in the sort of campaign that has a lot of TLs.

That sounds very good to me. 1 CP per skill would make this a lot faster and easier for everyone. Particularly since there are indeed several cultures "out there", each with its own tech. I guess I'll use that. Thanks a lot.

[LoneWolf23k]

I believe there was an old v2 Pyramid Magazine article that discussed the subject. I think it suggested using Techniques to represent TL adaptations; so having the Pilot/TL8 skill and learning how to pilot a TL11 ship meant you just needed to buy the Technique for it.

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k

I believe there was an old v2 Pyramid Magazine article that discussed the subject. I think it suggested using Techniques to represent TL adaptations; so having the Pilot/TL8 skill and learning how to pilot a TL11 ship meant you just needed to buy the Technique for it.

Except that isn't fundamentally different to simply putting a point in each skill up to TL11. In fact it's cheapest just to put a point directly into the TL11 version...