GURPS Fantasy , shared world, recruiting

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Agramer

Sure,but we do have a "problem" with nobody volunteering to do central provinces/Empire now.

All of us with suggestions are currently making some Fringe Nations.

If we "open" whole globe well get even more fringes/exotic lands but will still lack Central Area.

This perhaps could be interpreted as a feature. If you have a strong Central Area then you (might) have one land that really sets the dominant language, culture, tech, and expectations for a huge area.

This is realistic and believable; it's also constraining. What we could perhaps do is define the characteristics of the central kingdom that formed the core of the empire. Each of these "fringe nations" was probably part of the empire at some time past. The "shattering" was not likely all at once (though it could have been) given travel times and the speed of information. But what's left now is probably a weak central nation with delusions of grandeur tied to the traditions of the past, but with little sway.

In fact, one thing that would be interesting is for the "Central" empire to have dissolved completely...perhaps the emperor died, but governance was not done by land/provinces, but by cities. So each city Mayor found themselves with probably enough power to control their local area, but depending on law and culture, little else. So the Empire DID go all the way out in a short time, and what's left isn't a set of nation-states, but city-states. Each one under the control of its Mayor, which becomes the highest rank of that region. It also allows each city-state to be a site of independent development, different character, style, and a free hand for potential designers.

Just a thought. "Nations" might really ONLY exist anymore on the fringe.

[tantric]

Or the central area could be Mana Dead now. I like the idea of several cultures discovering sea travel simultaneously and independently rather than one "Europe".

Heck, I'll throw in a continent:

The Five Nations is a continent based on Amerind cultures which have reached Iron Age technology. The actual nations are: Saunee, which is a blend of Cherokee and Iroquois, Cahokia, based on Muscogee/Moundbuilders, Teton Oyate, the Lakotah Republic, Na'mima, based on Kwakiutl and other Pacific NW cultures, and Qosqo, the Inca Kingdom. There is also an area of Inuit/Neosiberean tribes, but no central nation. There has been significant culture exchange and development, including assimilation of many smaller tribes and the changes in religion that go with the development of strong nation-states. For instance, two continent spanning religions compete with and merge with local beliefs, while the Suanee syllabary has been adapted to most Five Nations Languages.

On the other hand, I'm about to dive back into Ubantu and won't have the energy for any nation except Tikopia on this world.

[Agramer]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

This perhaps could be interpreted as a feature. If you have a strong Central Area then you (might) have one land that really sets the dominant language, culture, tech, and expectations for a huge area.

This is realistic and believable; it's also constraining. What we could perhaps do is define the characteristics of the central kingdom that formed the core of the empire. Each of these "fringe nations" was probably part of the empire at some time past. The "shattering" was not likely all at once (though it could have been) given travel times and the speed of information. But what's left now is probably a weak central nation with delusions of grandeur tied to the traditions of the past, but with little sway.

In fact, one thing that would be interesting is for the "Central" empire to have dissolved completely...perhaps the emperor died, but governance was not done by land/provinces, but by cities. So each city Mayor found themselves with probably enough power to control their local area, but depending on law and culture, little else. So the Empire DID go all the way out in a short time, and what's left isn't a set of nation-states, but city-states. Each one under the control of its Mayor, which becomes the highest rank of that region. It also allows each city-state to be a site of independent development, different character, style, and a free hand for potential designers.

Just a thought. "Nations" might really ONLY exist anymore on the fringe.

Well this is supposed to be Centar....though Combatmedics word is last on that issue.

(Would be nice if Threlgar could participate in this more actively)

[Agramer]

Originally Posted by tantric

The Five nations...in iron age...

Is very nice concept,sparks imagination and Mainstream Fantasy totally lacks anything in that regard.

Also due lack of presence of those nations (lifted to Iron age TL2/3) in Fantasy literature,we could just "copy-paste" actual beliefs and cosmologies...etc...and it would still "sound" fantastic.

Originally Posted by tantric

Heck, I'll throw in a continent:
On the other hand, I'm about to dive back into Ubantu and won't have the energy for any nation except Tikopia on this world.

Truthfully Id find you making this much more interesting that Tikopia.Since Tikopia is "invention" and 5 Nations are real...and would actually just be Alternate history(with Fantasy elements) and hence more interesting.Also players could find on net illustrations /pictures to spark their imagination more.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by tantric

So, for Georgia, I'm seeing a dualistic Ubergod, something like the Sun (Deela-Malkh) and the Shadow (Ishtar-Deela), lord of Heaven and keeper of Hell, meaning that that part of the religion is morally neutral. Possible ascetics who pray to this god(s).

Ahriman is a personification of chaos, a void that is the source of all evil. In Deela's role as king of the underworld, he is still beneficent. Ahriman, which is an 'it', just destroys, though he grants power to his disciples. [iffy on this, but i like the three way interaction]

Earth is in the care of seven archangels. This Heptad is somewhat nebulous - there are only seven at a time, but which seven may change. ...
Is this working for you? Change anything you want, do as thou see fit, I just enjoy tinkering with religions.

One thing we have to figure out as we go off in our separate ways to develop parts of the world is some "truth" in the cosmology.

For example, we have options:

1) None of the Gods are real; there are NO supernatural beings of tremendous power; there are NO supernatural beings of any power, really.

We aren't precluded from this even though magic is empirically real in this world. What this does mean, likely, is that magical effects are limited to what you can do; one can't recruit powerful demons or spirits to your aid - there aren't any.

2) There really is a God or Gods, they're real, and they're the ONLY ones that exist and they DO have a preference on the "right" way to serve them, and by the way, they expect to be served. Worshiping wrong is a Bad Idea, and really will doom a soul.

3) There are supernatural beings, they're real, and they don't give a frak about human's destiny or anything. They occasionally may interact with people and whatnot through spells and rituals. People may worship them as gods, but by and large their indifferent. This means that any religion or creed is "valid," and if they interest the being sufficiently, may be granted some boon or power.

4) There are supernatural beings with a truly vested interest in the world, its creation and destiny, and one or more peoples within it. There may be One True Way of worship, or they might not care. They might be like Babylon 5's Shadows, where they only care that the strongest people survive, thrive, reach the stars (?), and then smack down or be smacked down as a race.


The more constrained we make the cosmology, the more important it is to agree on it beforehand...

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

3) There are supernatural beings, they're real, and they don't give a frak about human's destiny or anything. They occasionally may interact with people and whatnot through spells and rituals. People may worship them as gods, but by and large their indifferent. This means that any religion or creed is "valid," and if they interest the being sufficiently, may be granted some boon or power.

I'd vote for this one, there are beings of power somewhere which may be the source of some of the aspected mana, the truth behind who they are and what they want is going to be told differently by different people.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

In fact, one thing that would be interesting is for the "Central" empire to have dissolved completely...

That's what I was thinking was the case, the empire is gone, there are minor nations and city-states which are made up of those imperial remnants, and skirmishes and wars happen as one nation or another takes it upon themselves to reunify the empire.

I have some ideas for some of those city-states being aspected to different elements...

[Threlgar]

Originally Posted by Agramer

(Would be nice if Threlgar could participate in this more actively)

Hi, sorry - had some serious time problem the last days and things proceed very fast here. I was not able to keep up and even now have not read all of the post since my last one (on page twelve ? Huh...).

I will try. I will not have time to contibute much, but some thoughts to the shattered empire as it exists in my head:

In my vision, the empire grew very fast during a period of some 300 years, which in comparison with the roman empire (on which it was modelled) would correspond roughly to the time between the punic wars and emperor Nero.

Most of the regions far away from the central empire retained much of their own culture, but the language of the empire became a "lingua franca" of sorts.

I took much of the cultural aspects from real history, because I wanted to focus on politics, which my campaign was supposed to be about.

The central part of the empire still exists, but it is in a really bad shape. The emperor is alive, but he became a little bit mad (exactly why is open to much speculation, but the traditionalist faction of the Cult of Persephone suspects hostile magic at work). His wife is a very ambitious woman who wants to see her own son on the throne - which is not going to happen under normal circumstances, since she is the emperors second wife and he had three sons and two daughters with his first wife. The first son died in battle, the second - right now the heir to the throne - is a drooling, decadent, fat, lecherous fool nobody wants on the throne, the third is physically weak and a hemophiliac but quite bright (and secretly utterly ruthless). Her own son is only 14 years of age, so she bids her time quite now. There are rumors of a bastard son of the emperor somewhere in Avernia (actually, that was going to be a PC...).

This situation leaves the empire very much leaderless, as the empress and the two living sons of the emperors first wife vie for power.

Many of the nobles retreated to their castles, pretending the situation is very much normal and spending their final days in every kind of debauchery.

The Cult of Persephone managed to purge their ranks from most of the corrupt priests in the aftermath of the war, when the people were enraged by the fact the barbarians where helped by a former priest and the subsequent founding of the Order of the Black Skull. But this purge reduced the number of priests dramatically, with many who were burned being more experienced members of the order. There is still much strife inside of the cult, suspicion everywhere because nobody believes all corruptors where discovered. In fact, the personal advisor of the emperor (or is he really the advisor of the empress ?) is suspected of demon worship by some traditionalists, but without proof there is no way taking action against him.

I could do a "Who is who" of the Empire, Hellas and Avernia, I still remember much of this.

Concerning gods, I supposed them to be just powerful spirits who are intelligent enough to understand the human concepts of religion and pose as gods... Some of them might even be the spirits of long dead archmages. (In my original idea, one of those was supposed to be an ancestor of the very same PC that is the emperors bastard and is still pulling strings. He actually arranged for the emperor to sire the PC...)

[Agramer]

Guys youll note that theme for Central Empire is actually "Shattered Empire"(which has been guidline so far)


Center was based on lose Trelgars write-up in this post previously in thread.

To summ it up:
We had "Roman Empire" with ancestor worship and clerigy based on Good Necromancers(talking with ancestors)-Plant colledge..that got broken due decadence and Barbarian invasion of Hellas province(Greece) lead by ex-priest Necromancer with Demonic pact.
-he lost major battle to Empires legions and is recovering/gathering army in Hellas
Meanwhile other provinces have pealed off and/or went out of control with local governors acting as kings/warlords.

So we still do have remenants of decadent central(starting) province of Empire(Rome in its last days)with turmoil elsewhere.

[Agramer]

Originally Posted by tantric

5 nations

MAybe their spread toward "Shattered Empire" has pushed Barbarians into Empire and soon they will reach its outer provinces(or already did) and well get clash of very different cultures.

Also ,why cant we make Nomads American Indians(some tribes) TL1-2 instead Mongol type of Nomads/invaders from East( West/North..anywhere but East ;) )

[tantric]

The five nations is a results of my desire to have an Ubantu style world, where various cultures that were marginalized on Earth all reach the age of sail at about the same time. Ubantu is the Bantu/Pygmy continent, Five Nations is the Amerind one - I had vague plans for a Polynesian empire with big Guinean elements and a Australian section, then a SE Asian section, Kurdish nation, a Tibetan section, etc. I still think this is a great idea - take your culture, give it magic that works and isolation and let it simmer. All of these were meant to be continents on Yrth that could oppose Megalos. In many ways, Georgia from this world would fit there - the goal is to take a stone age culture and plausably extrapolated it into TL3+1/2 iron magitech.