Alternate Mana Level Names

[CraigR]

This has probably been addressed, I've just been absent from the Forums for forever and a day:

I was checking out this entry in TVTropes called Your Magic's No Good Here, and there's a mention of the naming system for mana levels in alternate worlds. Specifically, the fact that "Low Mana" worlds are substantially more common than "Normal Mana" worlds, labeling the naming system a Non-Indicative Name. That got me thinking about different name for Mana levels:

• No Mana => (no change) No Mana
• Low Mana => Rare Mana OR Trace Mana
• Normal Mana => Uncommon Mana OR Thin Mana
• High Mana => Common Mana OR Dense Mana
• Very High Mana => Ubiquitous Mana OR Very Dense Mana

Opinions?

[whswhs]

I don't see any problem with the existing system or any need to change the names. "Normal mana" seems like a reasonable name for a world where mages can cast spells at no penalty, but nonmages can't cast spells at all. I don't think it matters how rare or frequent such worlds are.

[CraigR]

True, the frequency of world types shouldn't enter into it, however...

In Normal Mana areas, magic can only be cast by those with a special advantage, Magery. Those who don't have that advantage cannot cast even simple spells, which makes magic users uncommon, but not unheard of.

In High Mana areas, simple spells (those that don't have Magery as a specific requirement) can be cast by anybody who put points into the skill, making magic use much more common.

That's my logic for the alternate naming system.

[Rolando]

I think the problem is you are correlating mana level naming convention to world magic naming convention.

Worlds with normal mana are rare the world is rare not the mana level.

Normal mana is normal in the world because it can be used normally by mages and affect magic items in a normal way.

The naming convention of mana level is in relation to how the mana affect gameplay.

I can see some world calling it plenty different ways, maybe different naming conventions in a single world. Just look at how we measure things (yards/meters) and I will find completely rational that some people call normal mana "low spirit" areas and others call it "high ethereal" space, until some mages guild or society unifies the availability of ambient magical energies nomenclature or naming convention, and then the people some powerful nation will keep using "ethereal" concentration just because they are used to it.

[Varyon]

I mean, you can obviously do what you like in your games, but I certainly wouldn't categorize things that way. To define Low, Normal, High, and Very High, you basically just have to choose an arbitrary mana level to call "Normal." GURPS authors went with "Mages (that is, those with Magery) can cast spells unpenalized but must expend FP, magic items work normally, and non-mages (that is, those without Magery) cannot cast spells." And, honestly, that seems like a pretty good definition of "normal" to me.

You also sound like you may be conflating mana level with how common it is for people to be able to use magic. But those don't necessarily correlate - you could easily have a setting where Low Mana is the most common, yet the vast majority of the population has Magery, it's just not very reliable without a lot of training (on the bright side, I think critical failures are less problematic in Low Mana areas). Or a setting with Very High Mana where nobody knows how to use magic, despite not even needing Magery to cast (given that all failures are critical failures in Very High Mana, this is more likely than you may think - anybody who figures out how to do it invariably blows themselves up before they can even get their skill above IQ).

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I mean, you can obviously do what you like in your games, but I certainly wouldn't categorize things that way. To define Low, Normal, High, and Very High, you basically just have to choose an arbitrary mana level to call "Normal." GURPS authors went with "Mages (that is, those with Magery) can cast spells unpenalized but must expend FP, magic items work normally, and non-mages (that is, those without Magery) cannot cast spells." And, honestly, that seems like a pretty good definition of "normal" to me.

Such a shame Least of Spells took a sledge hammer to non-mages cannot cast spells in normal mana (Normal Mana: Anyone who knows IQ/A spells can cast them. All the rules for magic work normally, unless specifically
excepted for IQ/A spells"). ;-)

Originally Posted by Varyon

You also sound like you may be conflating mana level with how common it is for people to be able to use magic. But those don't necessarily correlate - you could easily have a setting where Low Mana is the most common, yet the vast majority of the population has Magery, it's just not very reliable without a lot of training (on the bright side, I think critical failures are less problematic in Low Mana areas). Or a setting with Very High Mana where nobody knows how to use magic, despite not even needing Magery to cast (given that all failures are critical failures in Very High Mana, this is more likely than you may think - anybody who figures out how to do it invariably blows themselves up before they can even get their skill above IQ).

Right, in fact one of the Canonical worlds, Camelot-1 "is high-mana, but magicians are still very rare" (Infinite Worlds p 136). Wild Mana and Pure Mana (aka Raw Magic) further mess things up.

Also Powers has theUnified Metaphysical Theories option for Magic be psionic based — "In some settings, “magic” and “psi” both tap the same energies, in one case by study and formal disciplines, in the other by raw talent and willpower. (...) Psi might even use the standard GURPS spell system. (“Mana levels” would probably not vary much in such a setting, although some areas might be more “psi-friendly” than others.)"

[David Johnston2]

I am reminded here of the difficulty people have understanding that at TLs earlier than 6 the vast majority of the population will not in fact have "Average" Wealth. They will be struggling or worse. 6

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by maximara

Such a shame Least of Spells took a sledge hammer to non-mages cannot cast spells in normal mana (Normal Mana: Anyone who knows IQ/A spells can cast them. All the rules for magic work normally, unless specifically
excepted for IQ/A spells"). ;-)

Fortunately for you, Least of Spells is just a supplement that doesn't force you to use it. It was written to suit some settings, not all of them, and those settings are outlined in the introduction. An example is a setting where everybody can cast spells, but where magic is not as strong and easy to use as would be implied by high mana.

So if you have a problem with the idea of non-mages casting spells in normal mana... don't use that supplement! Supplements are optional.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Fortunately for you, Least of Spells is just a supplement that doesn't force you to use it. It was written to suit some settings, not all of them, and those settings are outlined in the introduction. An example is a setting where everybody can cast spells, but where magic is not as strong and easy to use as would be implied by high mana.

So if you have a problem with the idea of non-mages casting spells in normal mana... don't use that supplement! Supplements are optional.

Or just don't use the "anybody can use these spells" part of it - and if you want there to be characters who can only use those, you could make access to those spells alone just a Perk (equivalent to Magery 0 with a -80% Limitation), or just give most non-mage characters a Quirk that means they cannot use the Least Spells (and doesn't count against any Quirk limits).

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by maximara

Such a shame Least of Spells took a sledge hammer to non-mages cannot cast spells in normal mana (Normal Mana: Anyone who knows IQ/A spells can cast them. All the rules for magic work normally, unless specifically
excepted for IQ/A spells"). ;-)

Least of Spells needless to say is a recent entrant and wasn't even dreamed of when the effects of mana levels were initially set. I hadn't heard that it offered spellcasting to non-mages. The thought occurs to me, however that since you have it, it's surprising that you didn't mention it in with regard to the percentage of spellcasters in Yrth.