SM and stealth

[Jeminai]

Would it be appropriate to apply a penalty or bonus to stealth based on SM?

I'm just thinking of a giant trying to be stealthy in the woods compared to a gnome or halfling.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

Would it be appropriate to apply a penalty or bonus to stealth based on SM?

I'm just thinking of a giant trying to be stealthy in the woods compared to a gnome or halfling.

I would say yes, a bonus or penalty based on the relative size modifier is appropriate.

[vsh]

There is no bonus nor penalty to stealth based on SM. There is a Vision roll modifier equal to SM. Also cover that can hide a gnome will not always be able to hide a giant, thus Vision roll to spot Giant will enjoy task difficulty bonus up to +10.

[RobKamm]

I believe the philosophy on this would be to say that if your high SM giant is noisy you give it Noisy; likewise quiet halflings should have Silence as well as a low SM if appropriate. SM alone doesn't dictate which, or even if either, is appropriate. A tribe of brownies that make whistling noises when they walk is still SM-4, but have Noisy 4 as well; and a hot air balloon SM (whatever that might be) is still very quiet unless the heater is running.

[Jeminai]

Originally Posted by RobKamm

A tribe of brownies that make whistling noises when they walk is still SM-4, but have Noisy 4 as well; and a hot air balloon SM (whatever that might be) is still very quiet unless the heater is running.

I sort of see where you are coming from, but I am trying to relate it to deliberate use of stealth and purposeful movement (on land).

If the brownies are whistling then that does not give them the Noisy disad, they are just not trying to be stealthy. What if they were carefully choosing their steps and moving slowly and remaining quiet? If they had Noisy, then they would still be penalized.

Now compare the brownies to a SM +4 giant in the same setting (let's call it dense forest) who is trying to choose steps carefully, remain quiet etc?

[Bruno]

I think we're getting some concepts crossed here.

Stealth covers both moving to remain unseen, and moving to remain unheard. Further to that, you have two ways your character's rolls interact with any witnesses: If they are actively watching, it's a contest between your character's Stealth vs their best applicable Sense - in this case the sentry gets a bonus to Vision to hear you, so for a large sneaky person the sentry's modified Vision may be better than Hearing, except in the dark. In this case Stealth is NOT directly modified for SM or you'd be double dipping. But it can influence eg: what kinds of cover you can hide behind.

But if they aren't actively watching, you just roll Stealth to sneak by. In this case, I'm not sure if Stealth is modified for SM.

I think for good reason there aren't any modifiers to Hearing rolls for SM. Large animals aren't noisier, small animals (down to a certain threshold) aren't much quieter. Elephants moving through jungle are notoriously quiet and difficult to see or hear despite being enormous, while any size dog, teacup Poodle up to Great Dane, will be noisy on a hard floor and quiet on a carpet.

Large creatures have feet appropriate to their size - they don't hit the ground any harder, or they'd break their feet. They take MORE care in how they put their feet down than a small animal, because otherwise their feet are damaged with the full force of their weight being concentrated onto eg. a sharp rock. Same thing, by the way, for us fat people - it's become almost cliche in some kinds of action/adventure novel to comment on how the fat guy is really really quiet. If he's not portrayed as huffing and puffing (and complaining) from being out of breath ;)

Now, large animals (and fat people) have a different standard for what they can move through without making lots of noise - how dense the foliage can be, how high the bushes/trees have to be to move under them, how far apart the trunks have to be etc. This is the auditory equivalent to "can you hide behind that wall or are you so tall bits are sticking out" and is situational.

I think if you wanted roll with it such that the SM is a bonus/penalty on Stealth rolls, you'd have to be careful to also rate cover/underbrush with an inverse bonus/penalty depending on what SM of creature can get through it/hide behind it, AND give bonuses/penalties to Stealth based on situational behaviors like crawling, to make yourself 2 feet tall to fit behind the 2.5 foot wall.

I'm not sure that's any simpler - applying the SM only to cancel it out again, or just eyeballing the cover directly.

[RobKamm]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

If the brownies are whistling then that does not give them the Noisy disad, they are just not trying to be stealthy. What if they were carefully choosing their steps and moving slowly and remaining quiet? If they had Noisy, then they would still be penalized.

To clarify, I said that the brownies made whistling noises not that they were whistling. The latter would be something they could do or not do. The former means that the noise in inherent in the action for them, I could have as easily used an example of a bee that buzzes when it flies - very small but with noisy movement. So, yes, if the bee can't fly without buzzing, or the brownie walk without a whistling noise (from their hair interacting with the breeze maybe?) then the Noisy disad applies.

[Anthony]

SM modifies perception rolls. Since stealth is a quick contest between stealth and perception, in effect SM modifies stealth.

[Kromm]

Basically, it works like this:

Not Being Seen: Win a Quick Contest of Stealth vs. your subject's Vision. Your SM modifies his Vision.

Not Being Heard: Win a Quick Contest of Stealth vs. your subject's Hearing. Your SM has no effect.

If you stand to be seen and heard, just roll once, but use the worst odds.

[Anders]

"Mr Bradshaw, will you stand up please?"

*boom*