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Old 09-22-2019, 06:03 PM   #121
Jareth Valar
 
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
A converted version of Who's Who 1's Einstein is on the GURPSwiki. Attributes and skills were kept as close to the 3e version as was possible.
Very nice. Thank you
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:39 PM   #122
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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A converted version of Who's Who 1's Einstein is on the GURPSwiki. Attributes and skills were kept as close to the 3e version as was possible.
In my humble opinion, he is realistic. The IQ score remains sensible, though at the limit: but Einstein is supposed to be at the limit in matter of IQ.
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:48 PM   #123
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The IQ score remains sensible, though at the limit: but Einstein is supposed to be at the limit in matter of IQ.
Is he? As far as I know he his achivements were limited to a few scientific fields. Such high IQ seems more appropriate to people with wider areas of expertise.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:24 PM   #124
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Is he? As far as I know he his achivements were limited to a few scientific fields. Such high IQ seems more appropriate to people with wider areas of expertise.
You may be right. Now, if you ask to name a genius without any other precision, his name will come in mind first, around the world. So, it may be a legend, and others may have been more intelligent than him (Leonardo da Vinci, Nicolas Tesla ...?). And, personally, I would give him IQ 14 and couple of talents rather than IQ 15 ...

But no matter, this thread is about maximum attribute scores for real people, not about Einstein.

In my humble opinion, 15 remains realistic though at the limit. 16 or more becomes cinematic. That was my point.

Last edited by Gollum; 09-22-2019 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 09-23-2019, 01:22 AM   #125
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

I'll keep all of this in mind for the limits to apply to my next campaign.

Also, what would happen to realistic ST values if we didn't have a Lifting Skill ?
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:09 AM   #126
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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You may be right. Now, if you ask to name a genius without any other precision, his name will come in mind first, around the world. So, it may be a legend, and others may have been more intelligent than him (Leonardo da Vinci, Nicolas Tesla ...?). And, personally, I would give him IQ 14 and couple of talents rather than IQ 15 ...

But no matter, this thread is about maximum attribute scores for real people, not about Einstein.

In my humble opinion, 15 remains realistic though at the limit. 16 or more becomes cinematic. That was my point.
The conversion of Leonardo da Vinci and a partial one of Nicolas Tesla are both available on GURPSwiki. IMHO they likely went a little overboard on da Vinci's IQ
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:19 AM   #127
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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I'll keep all of this in mind for the limits to apply to my next campaign.

Also, what would happen to realistic ST values if we didn't have a Lifting Skill ?
A skill for Lifting is realistic, the current rules are not; they're cinematic, bordering on four-colour.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:19 AM   #128
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Also, what would happen to realistic ST values if we didn't have a Lifting Skill ?
The problem is not the Lifting skill per se. It is how it works. +5% per point of margin of success makes a variation which can easily go from +0% to +50%. Feats do vary, of course, but not that much. Someone can hope lifting a heavier weight than usually, but never +50% ...

Having said that, the lifting skill is not designed to do Olympic weight lifting challenges. Like any other skill in GURPS, it is designed for adventuring feats, because roleplaying games are designed to simulate adventures.

And, in an adventure, a character rarely tries to lift the better he can. There is a given weight, known by the GM, and the character tries to lift it. The question is not by how much he will improve is ordinary BL but will it be sufficient to lift that precise weight.

So the Lifting skill perfectly works in that case: no matter if the character improves his BL by +25% or +50%; if +25% is sufficient, then he lifts the weight.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:42 AM   #129
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A skill for Lifting is realistic, the current rules are not; they're cinematic, bordering on four-colour.
Lifting Skill should probably replace Lifting ST, rather than give a percentage bonus, though it should be a ST-based skill then (and not modify Will for the purpose of extra effort). A Lifting Skill of 25 (a reasonable maximum in the majority of campaigns) would give a BL of 125 lbs, allowing a two-handed lift of 1,000 lbs, meaning that a Will-1 extra effort roll would allow for a record lift. Thus, you could have people with ST 15 take Lifting at ST+10 to be the strongest person on Earth.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:42 AM   #130
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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A skill for Lifting is realistic, the current rules are not; they're cinematic, bordering on four-colour.
I think it kind of depends on how high a skill (and Will if combining with EE) you allow.

I don't have an issue with good technique (i.e skill) value adding a lot to physical feats.

But I also don't have an issue with that kind of specific and intensive training that gives you that kind of advantage also improving your raw ST.

I.e you training for years to do this yes you will get better at lifting, through technique but you value adding to you increasing raw strength in this area as well.


For me the idea of it being an overall combined effect to achieve specific goals makes sense.



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No, as I mentioned in my previous post, Carry On Back is not a Lift. Therefore Lifting skill does no apply to it. Of course he has still trained, but that is reflected by his ST (Lifting ST specifically).

Carry On Back is by default something which takes extreme effort (you lose one FP per second!). Also, as far as I know, there are no Extra Effort rules which applies to it either (probably not needed anyway since as mentioned it is already a very strenuous activity).
By RAW you are right, however until there a "GURPS: Worlds Strongest Man*", we're trying to fit a very specif feat of strength into some pretty broad rules.

Looking at the feat in question to it's more a series of small lifts and "shrugs" but also pushes along the frame. So is that a Lift in GURPS terms or a carry in GURPS terms (and all that entails for what rules apply and what don't)?

I don't know because to me neither action as described by GURPS really match it. And in general that's fine because we are talking about a very specific action that's not likely to turn up outside a strong man competition so I don't need a specific set of rules for that specific thing.

However what that does mean is if we take one set of rules (lift or carry) and try and work backwards to decide out how strong Hafor Bjornson is in GURPS terms we can get weird results, and certainly results that are not consistent with his other feats.

e.g you pegged that carry x15 at ST22 which is right be the carry rules, but that also gives him an overhead lift of 775lbs without effort every 4 secs.

FWIW, to answer how I'd do that feat I'd allow EE and lift skill to apply to the x15 carry on back limit.



*and well given how often we end up here on these forums it might well sell! :-)
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Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-23-2019 at 06:54 AM.
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